is anyone brahmin or kayastha over here? - Page 4

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Thinker_Belle

@Thinker_Belle

IF-Rockerz

Posted: 13 years ago

Like someone commented before, My parents are Brahmin, so I guess I'm one too... especially now since I married a brahmin ..(but I married him not bcoz he was a brahmin, but bcoz we connected....). But personally, I dont even know why castes exist... I dont get the intricacies in the system, or the complicated rituals or the traditions.... (I dont know sanskrit, maybe thats why....)

Maybe in the earlier days it made sense, as people having same occupation grouped together and formed castes... now, I don't know...

Aren't Brahmins supposed to be the priestly caste? i.e, they should perform priestly duties for their livelihood... and maybe read all the scriptures and relics and maybe teach it to the rest... but post independance, I dont think even 1/3 of the brahmins do any of those things... What I mean to say is all of us Indians are secular and independent to take up any occupation (which is how it should be...) and if a brahmin doesn't do the priestly duties, what does he become? I guess a non- practicing brahmin ?!?!... so if a brahmin gets recruited in the Indian army, isn't he doing the duties of a Kshatriya (protectors and rulers clan)? I dunno... the whole caste system seems so absurd.... and so does the fact about eating vegetarian food only.... why is it required? I couldn't believe it when TN's mom said in an episode something along the lines that eating non-veg food would "awaken the beastly nature in one's body"!?!?!?!

(I truly dont remember what she said exactly...) but arn't we all educated enough to know its false?? I dunno... I feel a little like a hypocrite too, because I'm a vegetarian.... simply because when I tried eating non veg food, I didn't like it.... but can eat egg though...and i like it...(My parents were pretty liberal... they let us, my sister and I make our own decisions about food... so we kind of "experimented" with different cusines... )my husband is a vegetarian because he says he cannot eat anything that has heart beat and feelings(?!?!?!... I dont understand him anyways...) but I dont know why my parents and relatives are vegetarians....

Well... before I bore everyone out... I personally think caste system is pretty outdated if you are not following what your caste is supposed to follow... and I'm a non practicing Brahmin... if it makes sense...

I whole heartedly agree when Abeer said we have to change some traditions according to the cahnges in time and re-write them... Maybe we can come up with new castes... just like people in the old era did... and have castes of people in the IT industry, doctors, businessmen (I think they already have a caste...) etc...

I didn't mean any offense to any people of any caste.... just my 2 cents on the topic...

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Veer_FFM

@Veer_FFM

Senior Member

Posted: 13 years ago

my guess is, that the makers of ypnhk picked brahmins and kaayasths for the show coz these groups share some history together.
here's what I know: the whole brahmin vs. kaayasth issue started in kashmir, when both groups started blaming each other for mismanagement and misrule. before that they actually lived in mutual harmony. during the mughal rule, kaayasths learned farsi and during the british time they were the first to learn english, coz their profession is involved in being learned. this gave them an edge over the brahmins who traditionally were expert in sanskrit. although kaayasths also have a right to wear the janjeyu and read the Vedas.

Eventually brahmins and kaayasths started spreading rumors about each other, just like in the show. ;)

brahmins blame kaayasths for eating meat and drinking alcohol and kaayasths blame brahmins for having their nose up and not performing their priestly duties for the welfare of society. i've not really experienced kaayasths talking bad about brahmins or vice versa, but if it's true what many books say, then brahmins are jealous of kaayasths for being good looking and intelligent and kaayasths are jealous of brahmins for being the proper priestly caste. on the other hand, brahmins praise kaayasths for being well-educated and well-versed in the scriptures, whereas kaayasths praise brahmins for conserving vedic culture and vedic lifestyle during all the wars and change of rule in the previous centuries.

the show has managed to show some well known traits about both the groups.

brahmins being religious and strict about their brahman-hood, like in the vajpayee family - no matter how much dadi ji and abeers mom fight amongst each other, they always follow their pooja paath and ablutions. there was a scene at the dining table where chhutki was studing while eating, and dadi ji told her, that this is an insult to food as well as the vidya (knowledge). i've actually heard my mother and other people say the same thing to me.

and the mathur family in the initial phase has also being portrayed as being typical kaayasth. When lehers dad told his wife that their daughters should complete their studies before getting married, coz only well-educated girls get good rishtas amongst kaayasths. however, there was a scene, where leher is sitting on the sofa dreaming about abeer, and has her feet pointing at her books. no real kaayasth would ever do that, as they perform kalaam-dawaat pooja. this is just a small detail but it would add to the quality of the show, if the directors knew this.

another typical thing is, that kaayasth people either love eating meat or are strict shakaharis (no maas, no machhli, no andaa, no pyaaz, no laissan). leher and her mom are pure vegetarian, whereas the rest of the family enjoy their keema. even in my family I either find pure and strict vegetarians, or people who looooooove their butter chicken and kabaab. 😆 however kaayasths don't put paawandi on other people, e.g. if they are vegetarian they don't mind other people eating meat on the same table.

what would make the show interesting is how much abeer and leher find difficulties in adjusting to each others families mentality and attitude.

i'm just sharing some of my thoughts here 😉 coz as an kaayasth - nri, i find it interesting to learn about my heritage and stuff.

everybody knows who brahmins are, but not everybody knows, that kaayasths are brahmins too (dual caste status = brahmins and kshatriyye).

i don't mean to be casteist or anything. i agree with the concept of the show, that if two people love each other it doesnt matter if their castes match or not.

however if the moderators think my post to be inaporpiate, please delete this post.

best regards, veer 😊

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Jhanvi

@desigrl05

IF-Sizzlerz

+ 4

Posted: 13 years ago

@10on10: sorry dear dont know your name...

I agree. caste systems prolly worked in the olden days but they serve literally no purpose now as they've just come with a label... I mean, I feel bad mostly for the ""untouchables"" ..seriously, wtf? they're human as well, just b/c they're poor doesnt mean they havve any less knowledge or anything..jeez..

as for not eating anything that had a heart beat before..loll, my dad is like that as well..he's a strict veggie, no fish/chicken etc not even eggs in ice cream!! his family is super antsy about even bringing eggs inside the home and going into the kitchen w/o bathing is unholy apparently?? 🤔

my mom's family is the more "typical" per say kayasth family, her family are pakka meat eaters..eggs, chicken , fish [no beef obviously] so she's had an exposure to eggs the most..

I tend to go more w/ her and eat eggs only but my dad is a bit picky about me eating on tuesdays and mondays..//religiousness?? dunno

@veer: thank you for the background..def. didn't know alot of that stuff

but so true about the feet and books.. I would get slapped as a child when I studied and my feet accidently touched my books or were near them..

my father is the same, although my friends have started looking for rishtas my father wants to hold off for mine until i get a good job

and is it true..kshatriya's= brahmins + kayasthas? ..i would assume brahmins and kayasthas would make a higher caste since brahmins bring the vedic//cultural knowledge and kayasthas bring the modern knowledge?? 🤔

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Shivani_4u

@Shivani_4u

IF-Sizzlerz

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

yes m kayastha too.....😉

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arpit

@arpitnavi

Goldie

Posted: 13 years ago

Guys i'm a baniya(garg). i dont know what to comment on this topic but can only say that i'm definately going to marry a muslim girl. And i told it to my parents also. I told them if u want to see your son married then search only muslim girls. Though its sounds funny but i'm going to marry only muslim girl. As i start hating this caste system after watching ypnhk and i want to change this. I know its not possible by a single guy effort but when one starts then others also join him. Thats why i choose just opposite caste hindu and muslim. Yes its a very big step but i'm going to take it for sure.

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Shobha

@ssroomani

IF-Rockerz

+ 5

Posted: 13 years ago

I am a South Indian Brahmin........GSB in fact. I have seen caste differences creating problems in families, but personally do not have any such experience. In fact, we are more of an international family...........I have all kinds of relatives settled all over the world..........not just from different states of India like Gujarati, Punjabi, Bengali, Maharashtrian, Malayali, Tamil........also Muslims and Christians.........as well as British, American and European!

In fact, in my immediate family we are not very religious in the sense we do not observe poojas, rites, and rituals ............some of my uncles, aunts and cousins do more than us.........

Personally, I believe in a scientifc type of God and I believe in prayer which to me is communion with nature and universe.......

Yet, I know these differences and misunderstanding still exist in India.........we see enough of it in the news media.........so I feel the concept of YPNHK does have relevance in trying to change the regressive mindset of people.........

@Veer: Thanks for the info..........I didn't know the background of Kayasth and Brahmin differences before............in fact, I did not know anything about Kayasth before I started watching YPNHK and did a little research...

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Thinker_Belle

@Thinker_Belle

IF-Rockerz

Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: desigrl05
@10on10: sorry dear dont know your name...
I agree. caste systems prolly worked in the olden days but they serve literally no purpose now as they've just come with a label... I mean, I feel bad mostly for the ""untouchables"" ..seriously, wtf? they're human as well, just b/c they're poor doesnt mean they havve any less knowledge or anything..jeez..

as for not eating anything that had a heart beat before..loll, my dad is like that as well..he's a strict veggie, no fish/chicken etc not even eggs in ice cream!! his family is super antsy about even bringing eggs inside the home and going into the kitchen w/o bathing is unholy apparently?? 🤔

my mom's family is the more "typical" per say kayasth family, her family are pakka meat eaters..eggs, chicken , fish [no beef obviously] so she's had an exposure to eggs the most..

I tend to go more w/ her and eat eggs only but my dad is a bit picky about me eating on tuesdays and mondays..//religiousness?? dunno

desigirl05, you are right, I dont even want to get started on the "untouchables"... When I was schooling I used to spend my vacations at my grand dads place (a small town in south India) and I still remember I wasn't allowed to play with "untouchable" kids.... I got in trouble so many times bcozI couldn't understand why I shouldn't play with them , and I still cringe when I think of the punishments I had to endure for it.... with those kids watching...

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Neha

@jamoshi2507

IF-Dazzler

Posted: 13 years ago

very nice topic ... I know that these things do exist in India and its a lot... I am Kshatriya and have seen and heard about girl child and stuff... I know I am off point ... but what I wanted to say here is that my father is a man of principles and he just doesn't preaches it but practices it too... I was so happy when he was the first person to say yes to my marriage with a christian guy ... there were apprehensions from my in-laws side too ... but all is well now ... I have seen my cousins fall prey to this caste system and dealing with it everyday... it is there but a bit hushed up now and there are very orthodox people too and u can just imagine what they can do for their so called HONOR....

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Dabulls23

@Dabulls23

IF-Stunnerz

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

Chitragupta ji and the origin of Kayasthas

WHO are Kayasthas and what is their origin? Just as the Kshatriyas worship their arms and weapons on the occasion of Dasehra and the Vaishyas take out their bahis (cash-books) and khatas (ledgers) and venerate them on Divali, the Kayasthas, too, reverently place a pen and an ink-pot before their founder and patron deity Chitragupta on dooj (the 2nd day in the phase of the waxing moon), after Divali. They invoke his blessings to give them strength through the pen, considered mightier than the sword. But where do the Kayasthas or the writing caste fit in the four-fold varna system of the Hindus? It is said that Brahma, the Creator, having established the four varnas — Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra — ordained Dharamraj ( also called Yamraj, the god of death) to keep record of the deeds — good and evil — of all life-forms born and yet to be born on the earth, in the heavens above and in the lands below. Dharamraj, however, complained, "O Lord, how can I alone keep record of the deeds of the beings born into 84 lakh yonis (life-forms) in the three worlds?" Brahma then closed his eyes, meditated for a while and lo and behold! there appeared a radiant figure with a quill-pen in one hand and an ink-pot in another. Brahma named him Chittagupta for he was conceived in his cognitive-self (chitta) and he was lying in Him, dormant and secret (gupta). He was born of Brahma's body (kaya) and so the Lord decreed that his progenies be called Kayasthas. He was assigned to work as a minister, to write and record for Dharamraj. Thus, the fifth varna, the Kayastha, came into existence. Sanskrit texts of yore tell us that Chittagupta married Irawati and Nandini. The 12 Kayastha sub-castes are traced to his 12 sons, eight by Irawati and four by Nandini. Mathurs, Gaurs, Bhatnagars, Saxenas, Ambhasths, Nigams, Karns and Kulshreshths became the descendants of the eight sons by Irawati, whereas Srivastavas, Suryadhwajs, Asthanas and Valmiks became the descendants of the four sons by Nandini. As time passed, the name Chittagupta got transformed into Chitragupta. Some historians hold the view that during the reign of the Mughals, a number of Hindus who were were educated and endowed with sharp intellect attained administrative positions through rapid adaptation to the Persian language and culture of India's new rulers. These influential Hindus got together and formed a new caste known as Kayastha. Ancient Sanskrit texts dating back to the pre-Mughal period, though, have references to Kayasthas and Chitragupta. The Smriti of Yajnavalkya describes the Kayasthas as writers, scribes and village accountants. The Vishnu and Parashara Smritis have also similar references to them, describing them as magistrates, judges and chief executive officers. In the Garud Puran, Chitragupta has been described as the giver of the script (Chitraguptaya namastubhyam veda aksharadatre — salutation to Chitragupta, the giver of the script). The Rig Veda enjoins a salutation to Chitragupta before offering sacrifice — Sri Chitraguptaya vai namah. The 12 sub-castes of the Kayasthas are not only endogamous subdivisions, but they also have exogamous divisions based on als. An al would refer to a distinguished ancestor or the place of origin or it could refer to a characteristic acquired during migration. Members of the same al are prohibited to inter-marry and hence als perform the same function that gotras do in other castes. Mathurs are divided into 197 als, Bhatnagars into 95, Saxenas into 121, Nigams into 42 and Srivastavas into 43. Two other regional communities also lay claim to the name Kayastha. These are the Prabhu Kayasthas of Maharashtra and Bengali Kayasthas of West Bengal. They were also the 'writing-castes' in Maharashtra and Bengal, respectively, like the Chitragupta Kayasthas of North India. Kayasthas mostly belong to the Hindi-speaking states of U.P., Bihar, Madhya Pradesh and Delhi. However, no firm figures are available of their population in India. Kayasthas also migrated to various other parts of the country. Most of the Kayasthas who shifted to Hyderabad from Delhi and U.P. in the middle of the eighteenth century got employment in the court of the Nizam. In 1820, out of the 400 North Indian mansabdars, 60 were Kayasthas. With the passing of time, the Kayasthas have surged ahead. They have broken new grounds in vocations other than those relating to writing and record-keeping, and excelled in them. Thus, in public life, Dr Rajendra Prasad rose to become the first President of the Republic of India, whereas Lal Bahadur Shastri succeeded Jawaharlal Nehru as the Prime Minister. Dr Sampuranand was the Chief Minister of U.P. and Governor of Rajasthan, besides being a literary figure. Jaya Prakash Narain brought down Indira Gandhi, Subhas Chandra Bose fought the British rule militarily. Shanti Swarup Bhatnagar, and Jagdish Chandra Bose were eminent scientists. Munshi Prem Chand, Harivansh Rai Bachchan, Raghupat Sahai "Firaque" Gorakhpuri, Dr Vrindavan Lal Verma, Dr Ram Kumar Verma and Dr Dharm Vir Bharti have been men of letters. Swami Vivekanand was a philosopher and a true Indian. Amitabh Bachchan and Shatrughan Sinha have excelled in the celluloid world, Mukesh and Sonu Nigam in the world of music, and Ramanand Sagar on the small screen. Not many Kayasthas have, however, been industrialists or businessmen.

Source: www.tribuneindia.com

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fam26

@fam26

Senior Member

Posted: 13 years ago

I am a muslim who grew up in a hindu neighborhood married to a guy with a similar background. I don't believe in organized religions that bring about barriers within people though I do believe in God. Though differences exist all over India, small towns like the one I grew up in never really made me feel what religion/caste I belonged to as far as I can remember. I clearly remember my parents both practicing muslims initiated me into the world of learning on Vijaya Dashami with the same vidyarambha mantra that was written with a gold ring on the tongue of all the other kids in the neighbourhood by a retired school teacher. I was allowed in pooja rooms and even given my own space to pray when my parents were late from work and I had to stay over at neighbor's. I have moved out of the country after marriage but the sentiments are still the same when I return home to visit my hometown. But I am not sure if it would have been the same if I had fallen in love with a Hindu boy and decided to get married. Though my parents are quite liberal and supported me wholeheartedly unlike my in-laws when I decided to get married to my then-boyfriend-now-husband after quite a lot of drama, I'm sure they were quite relieved that he was from the same religion!!

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