No rings on fingers, no bells on toes

Veni, Vidi - yes ...

 

Vici?  will Ceaser's due be mine? The jury is out ...

 

While I have not done an in-depth review of the kind of discussion that is the be-all-end-all of this the 'Debate Mansion', I would not characterize the little I have seen to be of a serious or substantive nature ... of course I speak from my own perspective ... so love, marriage, rings, and bells can wait for their horse and carriage ... I'm putting my show on the road ... as an avowed and proud atheist and rationalist (the proverbial flotsam and jetsam in the sea of Hindu claptrap that provides sustenance to the rest of my family) ...

 

Someone in the know about the legal position of the separation of 'church' and state (read: religion and state) in Independent India, please oblige us with the facts.  If this concept is on the books, then what I see on Indian TV is nothing short of the tyranny of the majority, and should be firmly and decisively axed.  The active promoting of the 'horrorscope' and astrology snake-oil-salesperson (since women are as much a part as men) on channels pales in comparison!

 

In a nation ostensibly secular, what place does the parading of Hindu sentiment have on shows for public consumption?!  'Hanuman ki Jai', 'Mata ki Jai', 'Ganapati Buppa Morea', wheeling in idols of one kind or another, overt worshipping, Pundits spewing nonsense!!!  To the complete exclusion of Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, Jains, and the myriad other 'faiths'!!!  How is this permitted?!!  It doesn't just stop there of course - does a show exist where the characters are not steeped in Hinduism?!!  Not as far as I can tell.  Another curiosity that leaves me completely thunderstruck is that bizarre gesture - of hand over heart - called 'Sahara Pranam' on the Sahara channel!  Why is this reminiscent of the 'Heil Hitler' of the Nazi regime?  Are these people RSS'ites?! And no one has yet cried 'foul'??!!

 

I entered this forum on the heels of a discussion on 'Money, Love & Happiness' (such as it was)  ... and there it was ... glowing in the rest of the 'darkness' ... the predictable bashing of the 'American' and their natural unhappiness the result of an unnatural amount of money ... the originator has not yet answered my query of whether (s)he has spent any appreciable amount of time in the US to have averred that that is the state of affairs (and uniquely American to boot) ... I suspect (s)he has not ... oh, we do have our ills in this regard ... there is the Christian fundamentalist view broadcast on TV ... on fringe TV ... it would be unthinkable that this would be permitted on mainstream television ... and it does not require the services of an astrologer to predict that behinds would get hauled into court ... governmental agencies and independent legal organizations would hail fire and brimstone ... and up in smoke such an enterprise would go ... to reach some celestial site ...

 

This social climate in the US is a source of great happiness for all of us others who do not subscribe to one or the other superstition-du-jour ... one might almost say 'true happiness'.

Who do you think you are, may I ask?😛 All your cocky comments are leading nowhere.😛 You are here to prove that you've got nothing to prove. If you have to diss on India, why are you here on I-F?
Sure India has many problems than the US, but US also has it's share.
Edited by debayon - 14 years ago

Who do you think you are, may I ask?

Originally posted by: SValeCalGal

Who do you think you are, may I ask?

 

Eh?  The last time I looked, I was a homo sapiens ...  why do I think that that is both necessary and sufficient to have membership in this 'entertainment portal' ... some additional particulars are to be had on my profile ... oh ... I was born and raised on the subcontinent ...

 

You are here to prove that you've got nothing to prove.

 

Is that so?  Why, I must thank you for knowing me better than I know myself ... I wondered about my identity crisis - and me well past middle age (by some standards) ... maybe I should consult my own profile ...

 

If you have a substantive response about the issue I raise, do go ahead and enlighten me ... cocky comments welcome ...

 

Sorry gotta run ... will check back later for your dissertation ...

Yes, since you think you know more than we do, why don't you start a forum called "The Oversmart Forum", eh? And talk about your crap over there? You would make a great communist leader, may I add, right in between Stalin and Mao Zedong. So, do not just us, but yourself a favor, keep your attitude to yourself, and we'll keep our 'entertainment portal' Well, to be honest, I don't know what your issue is, is it about the 'entertainment portal' or the American issues?😛 Yes, I gotta run too, I have a life too, so Ciao.

Oh do please ... vamoose ... but before you do allow me to say that I would not mind being astounded by a display of your 'smarts' by virtue of a thought-out response to my post ... I won't however, hold my breath, nor will I heed your advice about starting another forum ...

 

Not surprisingly, you did not come up with even a sliver of a meaningful response ... that I shall attribute at your inability to get beyond the most elementary syntactical parsing of my post ... sir, semantics appears not to be your strong suit ...

My comments are in blue

Originally posted by: SValeCalGal

Veni, Vidi - yes ...

 

Vici?  will Ceaser's due be mine? The jury is out ...

Someone in the know about the legal position of the separation of 'church' and state (read: religion and state) in Independent India, please oblige us with the facts. 

Things are never 0 or 1, neither in US nor in India. In India we respect all religions, we have public holidays for almost all the religions. In the past, we had a Muslim president,  Sikh prime minister (at present), Hindu prime minister, Woman prime minister, etc.  The separation of church and state is there, but it can improve for sure.

If this concept is on the books, then what I see on Indian TV is nothing short of the tyranny of the majority, and should be firmly and decisively axed. 

My advice is that dont form any opinion about India based on TV. They dramatize a lot. Rather, first live in India, just like you told someone to live in US before forming an opinion.

The active promoting of the 'horrorscope' and astrology snake-oil-salesperson (since women are as much a part as men) on channels pales in comparison!

At the most, above is just some harmless stuff. Moreover, astrology makes at least some sense. For example - the nature of a person getting born in different weather conditions is likely to be influenced, even if a bit, by the weather conditions.

In a nation ostensibly secular, what place does the parading of Hindu sentiment have on shows for public consumption?!  'Hanuman ki Jai', 'Mata ki Jai', 'Ganapati Buppa Morea', wheeling in idols of one kind or another, overt worshipping, Pundits spewing nonsense!!!  To the complete exclusion of Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, Jains, and the myriad other 'faiths'!!!  How is this permitted?!!  It doesn't just stop there of course - does a show exist where the characters are not steeped in Hinduism?!!  Not as far as I can tell.

Similar things, even if not on similar scale, happen in US where Christians are in majority. Anyway, like I said before things are never 0 or 1 and things will improve. One point about public sentiments is that in India people are less individualistic and there is much more feeling of community and togetherness. People value love.

 Another curiosity that leaves me completely thunderstruck is that bizarre gesture - of hand over heart - called 'Sahara Pranam' on the Sahara channel!  Why is this reminiscent of the 'Heil Hitler' of the Nazi regime?  Are these people RSS'ites?! And no one has yet cried 'foul'??!!

Since when just having a "similar" gesture makes one a Nazi?  😕 At least in India we don't judge people like that.

I entered this forum on the heels of a discussion on 'Money, Love & Happiness' (such as it was)  ... and there it was ... glowing in the rest of the 'darkness' ... the predictable bashing of the 'American' and their natural unhappiness the result of an unnatural amount of money ... the originator has not yet answered my query of whether (s)he has spent any appreciable amount of time in the US to have averred that that is the state of affairs (and uniquely American to boot)

I agree that one should spend considerable time in US to know about that place. Moreover, its same in the case of India.

... I suspect (s)he has not ... oh, we do have our ills in this regard ... there is the Christian fundamentalist view broadcast on TV ... on fringe TV ... it would be unthinkable that this would be permitted on mainstream television ... and it does not require the services of an astrologer to predict that behinds would get hauled into court ... governmental agencies and independent legal organizations would hail fire and brimstone ... and up in smoke such an enterprise would go ... to reach some celestial site ...

This social climate in the US is a source of great happiness for all of us others who do not subscribe to one or the other superstition-du-jour ... one might almost say 'true happiness'.

Edited by karandel_2008 - 14 years ago

Things are never 0 or 1, neither in US nor in India. In India we respect all religions, we have public holidays for almost all the religions. In the past, we had a Muslim president,  Sikh prime minister (at present), Hindu prime minister, Woman prime minister, etc.  The separation of church and state is there, but it can improve for sure.

 

I could not agree more - about nothing being stark black and white (or binary as you state) ... However, India is not unique in 'respecting all religions' (in theory if not practice) ... I personally have little regard for this stance because I should then demand to be respected for my firm belief that Santa is coming to town with his elves and reindeers in December (see, no way to disprove that either) ... please do not confuse morality and ethics with religion ... we as a species have a great deal to learn about these matters, and religions are not the only bastions ... many many aspects of morality and ethics are hardwired into our genome - just as they are for other creatures in the animal kingdom ...  

 

Now, with regard to the separation of religion and state ... do you know if this is codified in the Indian legal system? If it is, then how is it tolerated in mainstream TV and the authorities have not come down on it?  I refer not just to serial-land but also to reality shows (the music talent shows come foremost to mind)?  If there is to be equity, then other 'faiths' should be represented in like manner (I have seen aarti of idols, no numaaz, no gurbaani, no mass, no buddhist chanting) ...

 

Rather, first live in India, just like you told someone to live in US before forming an opinion.

I may have said this on another post - I was born and raised on the subcontinent ...

 

astrology makes at least some sense. For example - the nature of a person getting born in different weather conditions is likely to be influenced, even if a bit, by the weather conditions.

Surely you jest!  I leave it at that ... under the assumption that you have not yet been sufficiently exposed to the concept of empirical proof and the scientific method for validating hypotheses ...

 

Similar things, even if not on similar scale, happen in US where Christians are in majority.

 

Yes and No ... there are nutters in the US who claim that the country is a Christian one ... to a considerable extent it is and this is a situation under which many of us chafe, and are taking active steps to (i) ensure that the constitution which specifically bans a state religion is followed; and (ii) disallow religion from encroaching into the public domain (big controversy lately about some idiot politican wanting the 10 commandments to be displayed at a government facility - he got pretty well beaten down) ... people get hauled into court all the time for this precise reason (like the aetheist father who sued the school board for coercing his daughter to say the Christian prayer) ... I do not have any recollection of a similar situation in India ... if you do, please enligthen me so I could read up on it ...

 

there is much more feeling of community and togetherness.

 

There is no paucity of that here either ... even while being individualistic ... that that is not the case is a myth ... remember, humans are social creatures and nowhere on the planet have we transcended our basic nature ...

 

People value love.

Where do you think they do not?  This is a universal human trait ...

 

Since when just having a "similar" gesture makes one a Nazi?  😕 At least in India we don't judge people like that.

 

Let me try and clear this ... I said it was 'reminiscent' of that kind of gesture ... why is there the need to come up with a completely new form of greeting?  If 'respect for religion' were to be shown, then I might approach this differently i.e. at random on any day choose one of the many forms of greeting from 'namaskar' to 'sulaam aleykum', to 'sut sri akal', to whatever ... far more inclusive ... my fear in the case of Sahara was that they were members of the RSS - just like the right wing nut cases in this country ...

All said, I truly commend you for your civility ... this should be an 'adults only' forum ...

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]Lol so what do u recommend? A mullah show on primetime for ur viewin pleasure? Why dont u start one urself noone's'gonna stop u at leastin india. That u'd'go commercially bust is anothr matter so dont expect public to subsidize ur eclectic tastes in relligins. Thatd be nazism
lol


Edited by cuckoocutter - 14 years ago

As for the usa who we kiddin? Preacher types wld love nothin better to get good christ shows. Again othr than bible lovers n'hillbillies u got no takers. The thing u missin is media is free in india lik it is in the usa within broad constraints. Tryin to shove ur views down public's'throat is what wld be nazim not the cuckoo stuff u got back there lol.