No rings on fingers, no bells on toes - Page 2

Posted: 14 years ago
Originally posted by debayon


Who do you think you are, may I ask?πŸ˜› All your cocky comments are leading nowhere.πŸ˜› You are here to prove that you've got nothing to prove. If you have to diss on India, why are you here on I-F?
Sure India has many problems than the US, but US also has it's share.
Hey Bhagawan she is also an Atheist like you Debs.
Hmmm I can see the resemblance.πŸ˜†
Have a good rest and pass all the test.
Edited by Summer3 - 14 years ago
Posted: 14 years ago
You can't even look for "reality" in the shows to begin with. Let alone religious equity, of all things!!!!!!!!!
 
Uh ... sorry ... but what is unreal about the musical reality shows where what I 'carp' about is just as prevalent (infact that's where it's particularly perturbing)?!  These aspects should be kept strictly private ... out of the public domain (where people can ill afford to rock the boat) ... after all the purveyors of this fare are accepting funding (direct or indirect) from all kinds and yet take the liberty to depict only a certain segment of society?  That's what's so unique about some of the 'western' nations ... there is explicit effort to ensure that the majority does not smother minorities ... not that we're entirely successful ... but there are watchdog groups and constant effort to affect a change ...
 
Now, don't tell me you want them to be imaginative in a Christian way and not in a Hindu way.
I'm not appreciating your notion of 'imaginative', so you'll have to elucidate further ... as for Christian versus Hindu?  Uh ... why not?  Are Christians less Indian than Hindus?  Don't they pay into the system?  Shouldn't they be represented in equal measure?
 
I'm not sure why you chose to pick on religious bias out of god knows how many other flaws in these shows.
 
Well ... that's kind of an odd thing to say!  I chose it because I felt something was out of kilter! πŸ˜•
 
So, it's obvious that they have to keep the community interest in mind.
 
So let's assume you personally are not the hoi polloi ... would you lose interest if shows made even a modicum of effort to be inclusive?
 
Well, more often than not!
 
OK ... if you insist ... but there is total exclusion of every one else!
 
And if you ask me, it's okay. Not something to blow your cool over.
 
Really?!!  Interesting!! Why do you think that this state of affairs is OK?  Because you're not at the receiving end?  Let me relate an episode where this lovely young Japanese woman who had been in the US for some 10 odd years confessed - she had no notion of what it meant to be excluded until she came to this country ... and how that had sensitized her to the plight of minorities in Japan (where there is horrendous discrimination) ... and this sort of thing, I'm afraid, is worth 'blowing one's cool over' ... I'll always champion the underdog and demand equitable treatment ...
 
I'm sure the minorities get their share of entertainment from the same shows as well.
 
Perhaps!  One reason could be desensitization ... if there are non-Hindu types reading some of this, I'd sure like to hear their thoughts ...
Posted: 14 years ago
As for the usa who we kiddin? Preacher types wld love nothin better to get good christ shows.
 
Yes ... but they're not allowed to ... they have their channels of course which do rollicking business fleecing their flock ... but that has nothing to do with the issue I raised ...
 
The thing u missin is media is free in india lik it is in the usa within broad constraints.
 
What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?  Media is free translates to media is insensitive?  The number of non-Hindus is not an insignificant number ... and yet, media makes no effort to include them?!
 
Tryin to shove ur views down public's'throat is what wld be nazim not the cuckoo stuff u got back there lol.
 
Shoving one's view down throats?!  Asking for equity is that?!  As for the Naziism and cuckoo stuff - you lost me ... sorry ... that requires some translation ...
Posted: 14 years ago
dm is getting flooded by trolls nowadays........sigh!
 
so what was the main point that you sought to make with your astoundingly "enlightening" posts??
 
was the whole thing intended to drive home the point to people here that Minorities are excluded from representation in the Entertainment industry?....what makes u think so??
 
kindly elaborate on your stand before i can proceed to disspel your so blatantly-obvious misgivings!😊
Posted: 14 years ago
CalGal (not you Middy!), a couple of points for your perusal:

Separation of church and state is about keeping the government and religious institutions separate and independent from each other. Within the United States, it's about making no law that respects a religious establishment or prohibits the exercise of religious freedom.

Also, within the US, there is no federal state-owned broadcasting authority. Which means TV is off-limits to the government.

Conclusion #1: Freedom of religious exercise  by an individual or community, in public or private is supported unconditionally!
Conclusion #2: Television is NOT a government mouthpiece that they could clamp down at will.

To reiterate, separation of church and state has got nothing to do with TV programs airing on commercial channels.

As far as India is concerned:
1. Non-resident Indians watching musical shows on cable TV all the way from, say, Sunnyvale, and forming opinions on how secular or not that nation is, IMO, would be considered reaching.
2. India doesn't have to be just like US. US can have it's own law of the land, rules and regulations; so can India. They are two large democratic bodies but the similarities end there. Keeping that in mind,  even if "Separation of church and state", by some bizarre means,  takes into account the broadcasting networks within US , it doesn't have to be likewise in India.
3. I think Doordarshan which is a division of Prasar Bharati, nominated by the government of India as a public broadcaster, does telecast programs which caters to all kinds of audiences. I myself have a couple of DVDs on Mulla Naseeruddin, Mirza Ghalib, The Sword of Tipu Sultan and Akbar The Great. I do remember hearing some of them chant "Allah Ho Akbar" multiple times on many of these shows.

Now, out of curiosity, is your beef with a) India b) Hindus c) Theists d) Some members on these forums? I wasn't quite clear. All of those beefs probably warrant different threads.

Posted: 14 years ago


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Posted: 14 years ago
It's the entertainment and shock value they were to provide, I thought. And not to enmesh themselves into religious, political or whatever tangles.
 
Hmmm ... entertainment and shock value are entirely different things ... if it's shock value they seek then I, for one, am suitably shocked at the state of affairs ... πŸ˜”
 
And not to enmesh themselves into religious, political or whatever tangles.
From my perspective, their position has already enmeshed them in all of the above ... you must tell me, for my edification, which domain of human activity is bereft of a political angle ... and my understanding is that in this day and age 'ethics' is being taught in business school ... there's a reason why that is the case ... πŸ˜”
 
You can as well chalk it up to their lack of adequate knowledge about the religion of the minorities if you wanna.
It is ignorance ... and you are condoning this appalling state of affairs ... my beef is that while I hardly expect the authorities to enforce laws to the extent specified in the books (maintain the status quo because they are the ultimate beneficiaries), I do hold the rest of the population and viewership culpable by virtue of their tacit approval of this kind of travesty ...
 
Unfortunately, the minorities are either just gonna have to adapt to what they've got or switch to something that can measure up to their preferences.
 
Unfortunately?!!  So let's just extrapolate that a tad further shall we ... everyone who is oppressed in any shape, way, or form can just well lump it and chalk it up to 'that's just how things are, take it or leave it' ... shall we apply this principle to ... oh let's say ... female trafficking for prostitution?  After all, that too is a business
 
And no, minorities can demand a change ... but that requires 'vocalizing' one's displeasure ... which is precisely what I am doing ... I - for now - belong to the minority class of the atheist, and would like to live to see the day when 'religion' is dismantled to be supplanted with a more universal code of ethics (I won't of course) ... but since religion is here to stay, I shall then demand that in a secular republic like India, every effort be made to be inclusive - irrespective of the domain!  And given that I now know that you live in this wonderful part of the world, my expectation would have been that you had imbibed many of the principles that make this country (despite its myriad faults) a mecca for all kinds from the rest of the globe ... protection of minority rights is one fundamental principle to which this country strives to adhere - sometimes manifested as explicit apologies to minority populations for crimes commited against them e.g. the interning of the Japanese during WW II (which incidentally did not begin as some one having a pang of conscience about their wrong doing but by the affected group forming a coalition and speaking out) ...
 
So, I believe I have initiated the process ... I should love to hear back from those other 'minority' groups about how they feel to be so excluded ...
 
Now, with regard to my 'quest' ... you are right that I seek a solution ... and I have already quite unequivocally stated what that solution entails ... suggestions are there in my posts ...
 
I do want to bring to your attention that I find this situation to be especially troublesome in the case of the reality show where there is representation from minority groups (specifically the music talent shows) ... and yet, they are routinely subjected to the Hindu perspective on life and are unable to speak out ... I take vehement objection to this practice ...
 
lolz.
I am as yet, not fully initiated in the cryptic ... but if this is you laughing, then I find that to be inexpressibly sad ...πŸ˜”
Posted: 14 years ago
drive home the point to people here that Minorities are excluded from representation in the Entertainment industry?....what makes u think so??
 
Gee whiz ... 'what makes me think so??' ... don't tell me that I've arrived at my conclusions from not having watched sufficient TV?!  You mean there are programs on Indian TV that are adequately representative of minorities?  I'm hardly suggesting that things here in the US - from the same perspective - are hunky-dory ... far from it ... but at least I hear voices of opposition ...
 
My main point was to ask why the majority perspective's routine eclipsing of the minority perspective was tolerable?
 
dm is getting flooded by trolls nowadays........sigh!
 
Do you think this is representative of that other minority?  The 'couth' and urbane?
Posted: 14 years ago
Originally posted by SValeCalGal


Veni, Vidi - yes ...

 

Vici?  will Ceaser's due be mine? The jury is out ...

 

While I have not done an in-depth review of the kind of discussion that is the be-all-end-all of this the 'Debate Mansion', I would not characterize the little I have seen to be of a serious or substantive nature ... of course I speak from my own perspective ... so love, marriage, rings, and bells can wait for their horse and carriage ... I'm putting my show on the road ... as an avowed and proud atheist and rationalist (the proverbial flotsam and jetsam in the sea of Hindu claptrap that provides sustenance to the rest of my family) ...

 

Someone in the know about the legal position of the separation of 'church' and state (read: religion and state) in Independent India, please oblige us with the facts.  If this concept is on the books, then what I see on Indian TV is nothing short of the tyranny of the majority, and should be firmly and decisively axed.  The active promoting of the 'horrorscope' and astrology snake-oil-salesperson (since women are as much a part as men) on channels pales in comparison!

 

In a nation ostensibly secular, what place does the parading of Hindu sentiment have on shows for public consumption?!  'Hanuman ki Jai', 'Mata ki Jai', 'Ganapati Buppa Morea', wheeling in idols of one kind or another, overt worshipping, Pundits spewing nonsense!!!  To the complete exclusion of Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, Jains, and the myriad other 'faiths'!!!  How is this permitted?!!  It doesn't just stop there of course - does a show exist where the characters are not steeped in Hinduism?!!  Not as far as I can tell.  Another curiosity that leaves me completely thunderstruck is that bizarre gesture - of hand over heart - called 'Sahara Pranam' on the Sahara channel!  Why is this reminiscent of the 'Heil Hitler' of the Nazi regime?  Are these people RSS'ites?! And no one has yet cried 'foul'??!!

 

I entered this forum on the heels of a discussion on 'Money, Love & Happiness' (such as it was)  ... and there it was ... glowing in the rest of the 'darkness' ... the predictable bashing of the 'American' and their natural unhappiness the result of an unnatural amount of money ... the originator has not yet answered my query of whether (s)he has spent any appreciable amount of time in the US to have averred that that is the state of affairs (and uniquely American to boot) ... I suspect (s)he has not ... oh, we do have our ills in this regard ... there is the Christian fundamentalist view broadcast on TV ... on fringe TV ... it would be unthinkable that this would be permitted on mainstream television ... and it does not require the services of an astrologer to predict that behinds would get hauled into court ... governmental agencies and independent legal organizations would hail fire and brimstone ... and up in smoke such an enterprise would go ... to reach some celestial site ...

 

This social climate in the US is a source of great happiness for all of us others who do not subscribe to one or the other superstition-du-jour ... one might almost say 'true happiness'.
Well, personally I'm atheist too, but I will tell you something. At least India isn't like Iraq and other radical countries. Yes, Hinduism is common in India but why just target and complain about India, and not Pakistan, where the Muslims are predominantly common. Oc course, all this yogis and mystical nonsense is a bunch of BS, but you sould a tad bit overconfident of yourself. Have you conducted a survey in India, every single city and town, about how many people actually watch the spiritual channels and then conduct another survey in the US, asking the same question and then compare it to each other. I'm sure that there'll be more people here(in the US). Why? Well simply because there are so many diverse religions in the states, that even though there may be a small group of followers for every religion, the number of sects of every religion are ridiculously huge compared to those in India. And in India, we don't have a religious structure for every sect. Dunno why they do it here(in the US), but that's just the way it is. The best thing, IMO, is to disregard all that crap. And I would like to add that I have had my share of nonsense-spewing by religious leaders here  in the US. They have a greater variety of religious channels, and to top it all off, they have differrent religious channels for different races. Looks like the racism in the US is never gonna change.πŸ˜†Hmmm, I think you are too judgemental off the Sahara channel thing. In that case, we should sue the Americans for holding their hand to their heart when saying the Pledge of Allegiance. πŸ˜† Although I like your visualization and imagery of the similarity to the Nazi regime. It's amusingπŸ˜† rest is all cynicism, which I have replied to in my previous posts.
Posted: 14 years ago
[QUOTE=debayon
Hey Debs for a 15 yr old you can talk.πŸ˜†
Happy Easter I am turning in.  Be more peaceful for Easter and Mr Jesus will bless you.
 
Just heart Empty Bhai's great song. Great Job.
Edited by Summer3 - 14 years ago

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