|| Mythological Masti :: Doubts & Discussions || - Page 7

Originally posted by: _Vrish_

It was probably a popular rakshasha name, since Ugrasena didn't exist in the Treta Yuga 🤓  Unless the Padmavati they're talking about here is the one that Shurpanakha was said to be re-incarnated from.

Probably not. Even Padmavati sounds like a common enough name for back in the day 😆 Ugrasen wouldn't have had to be around for it to be the same guy, since it was after dying in the devaasur sangraam that he's supposed to have haunted this Gobhil into fathering his reincarnation. But like, it would still be complicated. Shukracharya would've had to revive him as he did with Bali, and he would've had to last until Ram Avtaar.

Which brings me to my next question(s): the Devaasur Sangraam started when Mohini's purpose was revealed, and lasted long enough for important Treta figures like Muchkand, Jambvant, and Dashrath to participate. There are different accounts of this conflict in every puraan, all of them make references to different familiar names (the ones I mentioned above and presumably more)... sooo... can whoever knows any info on/stories from the Devasur Sangram please share them here? Or if there are enough of them, in a thread of their own? Thank yous!

Originally posted by: _Vrish_

Next question: I've noticed that Durvasa's name ain't amongst the immortals.  Anyone knows when and the circumstances in which he died?

Brace yourself... it seems he's still here 😳 Bhagavat gives the Ambarish story in Skand 9, Adhyay 5, towards the end of which it implies that Durvasa is indeed immortal, and ventures between here and Brahmalok at will. But he mellowed out because that story had such a happy ending. I think (hope?).

Originally posted by: lola610

Which brings me to my next question(s): the Devaasur Sangraam started when Mohini's purpose was revealed, and lasted long enough for important Treta figures like Muchkand, Jambvant, and Dashrath to participate. There are different accounts of this conflict in every puraan, all of them make references to different familiar names (the ones I mentioned above and presumably more)... sooo... can whoever knows any info on/stories from the Devasur Sangram please share them here? Or if there are enough of them, in a thread of their own? Thank yous!

• Kurma avatar war, where Rahu-Ketu were beheaded and the Asuras routed
• Surapadman's war against the Devas, which resulted in him & his brothers being killed by Kartikeya
• Indras war against Vritra
• Hiranyakashipu's war of revenge against the Devas for the killing of Hiranyaksha
• Bali's war of revenge against the Devas for the killing of Virochan
• Muchkund's support of the Devas against the asuras (who was ruling the asuras then?)
• Dasharath's war against Shambara
• Kush's war against Durjaya (resulted in the deaths of both)
• Narakasura's conquests, and death @ Krishna's hands
• Banasura???  Did he conquer the Devas?
• Any others I forgot/overlooked?  Do Ravan's wars w/ Indra count?

I think a new thread about the Devasura sangram would be good.  But specify in it whether Rakshashas are included or not, so that there is no confusion.  We can't have Rakshashas being mistaken for Asuras, or vice versa 🤪😈😆

Actually, in Rig Veda and most other Vedic texts, Asura need not mean bad guys or enemies of Devas. They were just not 'Suras' or the dwellers of Upper space/Heaven. Heaven was ruled by 11 Gods (a mixed group from Adityas, Vasus, Rudras etc), headed by Indra. Varuna, another Aditya was classified as an Asura, but he was not evil. He had most cordial relations with Indra, Agni, Visnu, Bhaga  etc..And similarly Surya, Rudra, Aryaman, Mitra etc were Asuras as well as they didn't dwell in the heaven.

No such racial fight between Suras and Asuras is seen in Vedas except for Indra's fight with Vrita. Another dispute between Suras and Asuras regarding celestial land was mentioned. To settle the dispute, Indra summoned his youngest brother Visnu aka Upendra. Visnu, wittiest of all Adityas, expanded his size and measured three pieces of land in three steps and it was divided among the Asuras and Suras and Rishis. This story was later turned into the Vaman Avatar in a completely different context in Purans.

Its probably in the Itihas and the Puranas, that Devas and Asuras were branded as enemy races and Asuras earned a demonic identity.

Rakshasas and Daityas have no mention prior to Ithihas or may be Puranas, as far as I know. But Rakshasas too, as per Ramayana and Mahabharata, need not be demonic. They were actually races of Sorcerers and adept in the art of Maya.

Has anyone read The Immortals of Melhua??

@ Vrish - Thanks for compiling all our scattered Devaasur points! I do think they were all part of one long feud after the amrit issue (excluding the one over Virochan's death which preceded that), which was every now and then interrupted after a major defeat. Will do some digging when my summer class ends in like 10 days and create the thread, unless somebody else gets to it first...?!

@ Rehan - thanks for the background info and insight on definitions/clasifications!!! Indeed, the Vedic origins of all these tales are more suljhe huye than the convoluted and sometimes contradicting accounts in the puraans... but then we aren't always sujhe huye enough to be content with that are we 😆 j/k As for Daityas that should also be a neutral term, since it just translates to sons of Diti by the same grammatical rule that makes Arjun 'Kaunteya'. And yes, even the itihaas and puraan accounts maintain that you can't generalize the whole race as good or evil - every now and then Indra pulled a move like he did in the Ahilya story that is unquestionably evil, and in asurs there were Bali and Prahlaad and in raakshasas, Vibhishan to balance that side out.

And I haven't read Immortals of Melhua but I've read about it. Was it good? Interesting? Thought-provoking? What I did read was the first 100 or so pages of Ashok Banker's Slayer of Kamsa, the first in his Krishna Coriolis series. It got off to a wayyy better start than what I know of his Ramayan and I'm eager to read the rest. Characterizations were very cool. Once you know what to expect from these mytho-fiction novels (i.e. not accuracy), some of them can prove to be quite intriguing.
Edited by lola610 - 12 years ago

Thanks Lola. No I haven't read the Immortals of Melhua. That's why I was asking.😃 I have just read the first chapter as that's the only thing I could download from the net. Other chapters are missing.😭

OK another question. Its not exactly related to mythology, but still one of you might help, has anyone watched the 1998 film called Swami Vivekananda? Sarvadaman Bannerjee played Vivekananda and Mithun Chakraborty played Ramkrishna. I am searching this movie for quite some time but to no avail. I wish someone gives me the torrent link...

Hellooo everyone...its been long since i have entered this thread...here i am with a doubt...infact a query...

Can someone please tell me after Krishna n Balram left Gokul.. What did Devi Rohini (Balram ji's mother) do??? I mean did she come back to Mathura and then moved with the family to Dwarka??? I dont know much about her life after the duo left for Mathura...as i never saw in any mytho shows highlighting this...and havent read much. ..so if you can help...

So sorry if this query has already been posted..

@ Rehan - most welcome! And lol looks like we're in the same boat - I too read those pages of Banker's books via the online preview on his site, but the book's not available in the U.S. so I'm looking for other ways to finish it/have someone who did read it spoil the rest for me 😆 And no idea where the Swami Vivekananda film can be found (but whoa... Mithun as Sri Ramakrishna 😲), but I do know that the film Adi Shankaracharya, in which Banerjee essayed the title role, can be watched on youtube in its entirety and I highly recommend it.

@ Deepsie - Rohini Maa bhi unke saath aayi, after Kans Vadh. In fact that is when she gave birth to Subhadra, after the big family reunion. You're right, no show has paid much attention to how or when exactly she comes back, though SK does show her at the upnayan sanskaar of Krishna and Balram along with VD. In fact even the Bhagavat doesn't explicitly write it, but mentions her as present during accounts of events later on - notably at the end of the avtaar. 
Edited by lola610 - 12 years ago

@lola...ohhh yes yes...finally m watching the upnayan sanskar epi right now...saw her there...i gues i missed this epi earlier...actually.i have never watched rsk epi by epi after kans' death. ..Always saw in bits n bites. ..ab dekhungi :)