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SEXUALITY debate: Why can't people live their life - Page 6

PemaKarpo thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
After giving this topic some thought, this is the conclusion that I have come to. Personally, I don't have any issue with any body's sexuality and I agree that people must be allowed to live their lives. Thanks to this topic, I have learned a few facts about Homosexuality and cleared some of my misconceptions ⭐️ 
All said and done, it's perfectly alright with me as long as these individuals happen to "some people" who happen to exist somewhere. I'm not sure I'll be thinking along these lines if one of those people happens to my son/daughter. I understand that there's nothing wrong in being homosexual and that the person is not responsible for it. I understand that it is a normal variation and the person has no psycological problem.
This does not have anything to with religion or society, it's just a personal opinion. I find being homosexual repulsive, to put it mildly. People may say I'm being narrow minded, being hypocritic, bigiotic and a lot of other things. But there it is- it's my opinion!

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return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
This content was originally posted by: Petrouska

This does not have anything to with religion or society, it's just a personal opinion. I find being homosexual repulsive, to put it mildly. People may say I'm being narrow minded, being hypocritic, bigiotic and a lot of other things. But there it is- it's my opinion!



Thats just being human. We all as people have aversion, fear or disgust about things that are different, don't understand or don't get. Narrow minded, hypocrisy is only when you use your personal opinions to promote hatred and discrimination. As long as a personal opinion does not manifest into hatred or discrimination in real life - everyone has the right to their opinion. I even support religious rights to preach their perceptions on homosexuality.

Two things out of curiosity
- Why exactly does it disgust you?
- Petrouska is very Russki, how did you come about that ID?
_Angie_ thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
This content was originally posted by: return_to_hades

       

I think in the end human sexuality is not black and white as we traditionally believe. We just can't put humans in boxes with labels and arrange them. Even gay, straight or bi does not fit always. Theres so many shades of gray, so many things that don't fit the norms or definitions or explanations.

I think that  sums it up nicely 😆 
PemaKarpo thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
This content was originally posted by: return_to_hades



Thats just being human. We all as people have aversion, fear or disgust about things that are different, don't understand or don't get. Narrow minded, hypocrisy is only when you use your personal opinions to promote hatred and discrimination. As long as a personal opinion does not manifest into hatred or discrimination in real life - everyone has the right to their opinion. I even support religious rights to preach their perceptions on homosexuality.

Two things out of curiosity
- Why exactly does it disgust you?
- Petrouska is very Russki, how did you come about that ID?

Why does it disgust me? Wish I knew😕 It's just that the whole concept of men and men and women and women having sex is -well, I don't know how to put it- disgusting😕 Ofcourse, it's my opinion entirely. Suppose you don't like the color white, just suppose. How would you explain why you don't like it😆
Petrouska is indeed Russian😆 I came across the word in one of my novels- Samsara.
Posted: 12 years ago
This content was originally posted by: TheUltimate

Ok, Beyond_the_Veil, to save space, I am not quoting you.


Okay.

This content was originally posted by: 1


My initial response means what it says - as long as I, my kids or any other married or unmarried heterosexual does not have to adhere to new standards, I am ok with gays calling their union anything.


...which is in stark contrast to what you have stated later:

This content was originally posted by: 2

And who said it would affect the traditional marriages? Not me.
[/quote]


If you feel same sex marriage has the potential to affect traditional definition of marriage, then it is logically deduced that you are implying it could (and hence there is a statistical probability that it would, sooner or later) affect traditional definition of marriage. And then you go ahead and say you haven't said it would affect traditional marriages. For more information, check the first paragraph of my post here.

So could you clarify your stance?


Are you trying to say why they want to get married and take a concept that was not meant for them?


Because there are more than one purpose of getting married. Hence there are purposes of getting married, and procreation is one of them (and the most or second most crucial one at that too).


Yes.


I am on two minds when it comes down to polyamory. I will say that I have not seen very strong arguments or statistical records to show that these relationships can sustain properly. However, I am very open to the concept if anyone is willing to elaborate on its needs and place in society.


Because a civil union isn't exactly the same as a marriage. There are countless benefits married couples receives, that couples in a civil union do not. Check this. There is no reason why LGBTs should be discriminated against. If there is a valid, rational, scientific, social argument against it, the one ought to bring it forth. So far, the "best" opposition point made against gay marriage revolves around the predictably same "Because God said so" or "Because it goes against traditional views" which aren't valid points at all.

I could debate ceaselessly on homosexuality. Why do you feel there has been no good case put up so far? And what exactly is your objection (if you have a major one) with them getting married - would you elaborate on that more so that I can present my counterarguments if I can.


Government should grant them the right to get married - people fighting for equality are not going to rest until this.
How exactly are they (which I am presuming you meant the LGBTs) bringing church into the state? In fact, it is usually the religious community attacking same sex marriage and (sometimes) even civil union by bringing their faith.
Edited by Beyond_the_Veil - 12 years ago

TheUltimate thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
This content was originally posted by: Beyond_the_Veil

...which is in stark contrast to what you have stated later:
 
If you feel same sex marriage has the potential to affect traditional definition of marriage, then it is logically deduced that you are implying it could (and hence there is a statistical probability that it would, sooner or later) affect traditional definition of marriage. And then you go ahead and say you haven't said it would affect traditional marriages. For more information, check the first paragraph of my post here.

So could you clarify your stance?

 
Right now, I do not feel either way. I am not sure whether or not gay marriages will affect traditional marriages (existing or otherwise). I would say it is because the gay community has not provided me with enough data so I can feel warm and fuzzy.


This content was originally posted by: Beyond_the_Veil


Are you trying to say why they want to get married and take a concept that was not meant for them?

No, I am trying to ask why do they want to adhere to the traditional standards? What is in it for them? Is it because this "standard" has been widely recognized by the society and it has lots of advantages? Why are they not coming up with their own "marriage"? Too much work?
 
This content was originally posted by: Beyond_the_Veil


Because there are more than one purpose of getting married. Hence there are purposes of getting married, and procreation is one of them (and the most or second most crucial one at that too).

Ok - let's agree to disagree on this one. The fact still remains that gays cannot have kids without external intervention.

 
Well that is not a very strong reason, is it? Do you have a reason why the definition should be modified?

This content was originally posted by: Beyond_the_Veil


I am on two minds when it comes down to polyamory. I will say that I have not seen very strong arguments or statistical records to show that these relationships can sustain properly. However, I am very open to the concept if anyone is willing to elaborate on its needs and place in society.

Speechless.

 
This content was originally posted by: Beyond_the_Veil

Because a civil union isn't exactly the same as a marriage.

Well if a civil union does not have the same benefits as a traditional marriage, then that is the problem with civil union. I am all for fixing them. Why change the traditional marriage?
This content was originally posted by: Beyond_the_Veil

Government should ...

 
Government has no business in anyone's marriage.
Edited by TheUltimate - 12 years ago
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
This content was originally posted by: TheUltimate

 

Government has no business in anyone's marriage.



The judiciary still implements a legal definition of marriage right? That definition is based on government policy and judicial activism. Do you propose that marriage as a legal institution recognized by courts be totally dissolved? People can still traditionally marry. The law just won't recognize marriage.


TheUltimate thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
This content was originally posted by: return_to_hades



The judiciary still implements a legal definition of marriage right? That definition is based on government policy and judicial activism. Do you propose that marriage as a legal institution recognized by courts be totally dissolved? People can still traditionally marry. The law just won't recognize marriage.

 
I should have clarified. Government's role need not expand than what it is. It has been set for the legal recognition etc. and that's it. It must not step in and say "hey guys, scrap that old one man one woman crap.. here is the new definition that we have come up with for you guys. You'all need to sign new certificates to have your marriages compliant with this new version".
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
This content was originally posted by: TheUltimate

 
I should have clarified. Government's role need not expand than what it is. It has been set for the legal recognition etc. and that's it. It must not step in and say "hey guys, scrap that old one man one woman crap.. here is the new definition that we have come up with for you guys. You'all need to sign new certificates to have your marriages compliant with this new version".



I'm not sure what the laws were in other countries but there was originally no one man/one woman crap in the US legal code. San Fran and other jurisdictions started giving gay marriage licenses based that the law stipulated age, and other requirements but not of gender. That crap was added by DOMA. That is why the constitutional amendments are not to "allow" gay marriages, but to "ban" gay marriages. Let two consenting adults of age just marry. Don't go amending the constitution to not let them marry.
Posted: 12 years ago
This content was originally posted by: TheUltimate

Right now, I do not feel either way. I am not sure whether or not gay marriages will affect traditional marriages (existing or otherwise).



Alright. You gave the impression to be swinging both ways, though. Thanks for your clarifications.

This content was originally posted by: TheUltimate

I would say it is because the gay community has not provided me with enough data so I can feel warm and fuzzy.


What kind of data is it that you are looking forward to? If gay unions can sustain, or if they will affect societies in some way or form? Or if they are normal enough to have a place in society? Elaborate more.
APA seems to clear some misconceptions based on its research.

This content was originally posted by: TheUltimate

No, I am trying to ask why do they want to adhere to the traditional standards? What is in it for them?


Already explained twice. Dig up this or this. If you couldn't understand any aspect of the said posts, then feel free to ask for clarifications. Don't want to reiterate myself for the third time unless it is to clarify myself or put up something new.

This content was originally posted by: TheUltimate

Is it because this "standard" has been widely recognized by the society and it has lots of advantages?


Correct. The link posted from About.com does confirm this viewpoint.

This content was originally posted by: TheUltimate

Why are they not coming up with their own "marriage"? Too much work?


Er...marriage is marriage. They are not asking others to socialize with them or accept them with open arms, but they should not be discriminated against. One can't deny them their rights just because of their orientations.
 
This content was originally posted by: TheUltimate

Ok - let's agree to disagree on this one.


If that's how you want to wage your debates here, then fine. Your choice.

This content was originally posted by: TheUltimate

The fact still remains that gays cannot have kids without external intervention.


Yes, this is an undeniable fact of nature. I don't think anyone could possibly disagree with that.
 

Is it because I have given the impression to be against polygamy, or simply because you find the idea to incomprehensible to even give it a fair chance?
 
This content was originally posted by: TheUltimate

Government has no business in anyone's marriage.


So why are gays not being granted to have their marriages and receive the same benefits as straight couples? Why is the government interfering there?
Edited by Beyond_the_Veil - 12 years ago
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