Debate : Who is Respnsible? - Page 8

I just read that the way men and women look each other is different...it's not mind,it's mindset which works differently, and that too bcz of the environment and society. Women too see guys, they do have desires, they do have their sexuality...desires, pleasure, sex it's not something which is monopoly of men. It's just that we are taught that women don't have to desires.
So just stop this, accept the fact that it's not at all acceptable at any cost.

@piggies, and have you noticed all the saas bahu drama is so popular...even in movies do we get really intelligent movies based on women...so basically all this outburst by everyone is stupid drama...if someone wanna really change then tell men how to behave themselves.

Rape is rape. Women dressing provocatively is not an excuse to okay rape. Merely touching someone inappropriately without their permission is unacceptable, rape is out of the question. In a democracy, women should have the freedom to wear what they want, say what they want, go where they want without worrying about getting raped. I'd say it's the mentality and the culture to be blamed. For centuries, men have been considered above women. Women are supposed to be owned by men and clearly, this mentality still exists in society even today.

Originally posted by: Angel-Jot.

Rape is rape. Women dressing provocatively is not an excuse to okay rape. Merely touching someone inappropriately without their permission is unacceptable, rape is out of the question. In a democracy, women should have the freedom to wear what they want, say what they want, go where they want without worrying about getting raped. I'd say it's the mentality and the culture to be blamed. For centuries, men have been considered above women. Women are supposed to be owned by men and clearly, this mentality still exists in society even today.

@indigoblues...so true... you know I'm too much sensitive on any issue connected to women, so to this gang rape too. It bothered me more bcz the statements and comments after the incident...short clothes, late night plans, this and that. Now i do wear mini skirts, shorts, like late night parties...so do i deserve to get raped...?? so this case horrified me beyond limits... so by any means i am not saying that what happened with her was something which is acceptable or some light matter.

But now coming to sex workers and dalits...how many time one talk and debate over these groups... in some rural areas it's common that the lower caste women are raped, and there's hardly any complain against the wrong doers, and it hardly gains any attention. and sex workers...if u know then the worst u can call a woman is the word for a woman sex worker...so people will even think abt them...forget it.

Now to everyone, in india 99.9% people are nothing but hypocrite group of people... everyone is saying that rape is wrong, but many with a remark she shouldn't had gone out late night...wow...

@dude81...it's impossible that govt. can change everything...a basic example...luckily all the men and guys(talking abt whom i love, admire and attached to)...be it my dad, cousin, friends...anyone, do accept that women are equal to men, and so anything like this is not acceptable in any case...on the other hand i encounter many people that women should remain in their limits or "dehlij"...it's the difference bw the upbringing.
upbringing has nothing to do with the scams and all, even if poverty is abolished...hey one thing...do u think that the upper class really consider women as equal..??sorry not the case.
so govt is not gonna change, it's only us which can do anything.

I really felt ashamed of gange rape...
it arises the question about women safety in india...
Sad but it is true that we women are not safe in our own country...
In oneside people worshiping women as a god, other side she is being tortured,gangraped, brutally killed...
but our government is simply watching Mrs.Gandhi came out and tried to convince the crowd,its not out of concern its just because of pressure.
Some people are against death sentence for those monsters.
Does they know the pain of being raped??????
Does they know the pain of throwd away nude from the bus?????
No, they just know to convince the people...
Within tendays a school girl in pondicherry had been raped.
But still our government didnt take neccessary steps to ensure our safety...
After delhi rape i felt how much god disgusted about his own creation.

our goverment is responsible,our law makers are responsible,our law is responsible.
I want to make a clear point on dressing.
Dressing is our own birthright,no one i mean no one shouldnt be pass dirty comment about dressings.
Edited by ashvinisharma - 11 years ago

Originally posted by: IndigoBlues

 

I'm not disrecrediting the Indian middle class..I read newspapers...I know that if it wasn't for the protesters then forget Delhi Gangrape, Jessica Lal, many other cases would have gone unnoticed...I think it was very brave of the people to go against the police and face lathi charge, water cannon, etc...

 

But all said and done, how long can you be angry? How long can you bay for revenge? Is revenge the sole motive? Fine, we tortured the culprits, then what? Once they're dead, what are you gonna do? Return back to your offices and pat yourself on the back thinking 'Yay, they got tortured, justice is served?' some reaction is better than no reaction... and its not about killing hanging these culprits... its the casual treatment of such cases by the officials. if u hav read about this particular case... u must hav read how much planning was done by the rapists... how police was not suspicious of the bus which kept on taking u-turns...

after the incident... repeatedly people remarking.."oh its nothing... hota rehta hai...!!!" this attitude needs to be changed... the authorities need to be shaken up and told "hota tab tak rahe ga jab tak hone de ge..."

frankly... this case will frizzle out..we know... so does every social movement...

be it renaissance or anti-apartheid... so what? dont start anything coz it'll end???? i disagree with this.

 

By the way, I didn't discover the phenonmenon of rape with Delhi Gangrape.I've been reading about it in newspapers for a long time. When I first became mature enough to understand what it was my reaction was the same: 'Rapists are animals. They deserve to be hanged, tortured, etc.' Im a feminist, and the idea of a man raping a woman enraged me. But this is just a knee-jerk reaction. If you research the phenonmenon, you will realize that it goes way beyond just physical assault, it's deeply ingrained in all of us. Will you give everybody death penalty?

as i have mentioned... its not about death panelty... if u think it is... then u r mistaken!

the protests are against the laxity... the casual approach... this is no ajmal kasab whose hanging is being demanded... people out there want serious action... change of law... stricter action...

now here u are saying that strict law wont change anything... then lets not have strict laws...

what purpose will that solve???

 

What I'm trying to say here is that everybody is blaming each other. Everybody is looking for a culprit, or some kind of payback. I think it's more important to focus on reforms. You can think of n number of bloodthirsty punishments, but is that going to stop crime? What we need is results, not revenge.

result are needed... but how to get them? and whats wrong in blaming if some one is actually wrong? should we get hermits from himalyas to blame and point out mistakes?

if some theif defends himself that.."everyone is a theif..." is this a valid defence????

those rapists were not scared that they'll be caught and punished... so criminals should not fear the laws???? is that going to stop the crime?

 

A lot of the people who are speaking out against the issue are hypocrites. If you go and personally interview the people who are protesting, you will find serious differences. A lot of the people who claim to be 'progressive' are actually people who do crimes in their own houses. Holding a candle doesn't make you a saint.

as i said... the defense that everyone is a criminal is no defense...

frankly this idea projected by indian govt is sick...

you ask them about corruption..."everyone is corrupt.."... u ask about communalism... "everyone is communal.."... about gender discrimination..."everyone does it..."

why????? so as per this logic... a supreme court judge trying on a rapist in court has no right to judge him... coz he himself might be a chauvenist... what a lame view!!!!!

and the protestsin my city... i saw majority females... girl students... housewives...

dont mind... but ur views remind me of the sick remark of president's son about these protests...

holding a candle makes no one saint... but does not automatically make u a hypocrit either!

 

But on the other hand, there are those people who have put petitions, who have written articles, who have asked the government to introduce sex education, who have started NGO's and self-defence camps, who have started programmes for reformed harassers to spread awareness-this is what I call action. A lot of the people are just screaming 'Death penalty, death penalty' like it solves everything.

yeah... such people are there... working for gender equality... so only this is the right way... rest everything wrong????

i dont know about supporting death panelty... but let me tell u...

harsh punishments and strict laws serve two funtions... "repressive" and "restitutive"...

repressive for potential criminals...

and restitutive for the enraged masses.. (its sociology, i am not making up these things)

strict action and increased vigilence is not a tonic which shall produce immidiate measurable results...

i beleive that the rapists should have shivers down their spine about what can happen before they think of doing such crime again... i dont think i dont have a right to demand this from my country...

 

 

It's not just a question of humanity. Even practically speaking, death penalty NEVER works. We have death for murder-has it stopped happening? Even in America, where they have lethal injection, a 16 year old girl was raped and dragged from one party to another, and not a single person came forward to help.

as i have remarked... u are taking a very narrow viewpoint...

its not about death for thses criminals... its about increased sensitivity and vigilence by the government and police so that india becomes safer for women...

 

 

And there's no denying that the middle class is apathetic most of the time. The rape victim was a middle-class educated professional, that's why people were so enraged. What about Dalits and sex workers. You will find around one-fourth of  the people who were so 'enraged' will suddenly shut their mouths.

now... this is such a lame view... its not even worth defense... i am actually sad that u wrote it..

u mean to say that had the girl been an uneducated dalit there would have been no protests...

why to drag in an unrelated topic? what about dalits and what about sex workers? u think that dalits dont protest??? yeah there are dalit problems... so what? till that is resolved everyone should keep mum and dare not speak about any other wrong?????

 

I'm not absolving government of the blame either. But everybody knows our government is corrupt. It's nothing new.

 

 

Crime doesn't belong to a particular class bracket. It is a result of widespread social malaises such as patriarchy. All I'm trying to say here is that baying for blood or trying to 'Find out who's responsible' doesn't solve the problem. Engaging in active reform does. At the end of the day, we have to return to the 'selfishness' of our jobs. The solution lies finding a way to fulfill our social duties regardless of other constraints.

who says that crime belongs to a particular social bracket...????

and what active reforms are u talking about?

frankly people need to shun the thinking"my way or highway"...

what i think is right... what i think is correct way of doing things... THAT IS THE ONLY CORRECT WAY... rest everyrthing is useless and wont serve any purpose...!!!!

u see any reform... any change... there are a number of people doing things differently and contributing in their own way...

if i say that i am protesting on road and the person filing PIL in court is a fool... coz that wont change anything... then i am wrong! and this is how u r wrong...

our social duties also demand us to show solidarity for a just cause...

already we people tolerate just too much... its high time one puts the foot down!

 

 

Originally posted by: meghasingh

@dude81...it's impossible that govt. can change everything...a basic example...luckily all the men and guys(talking abt whom i love, admire and attached to)...be it my dad, cousin, friends...anyone, do accept that women are equal to men, and so anything like this is not acceptable in any case...on the other hand i encounter many people that women should remain in their limits or "dehlij"...it's the difference bw the upbringing.
upbringing has nothing to do with the scams and all, even if poverty is abolished...hey one thing...do u think that the upper class really consider women as equal..??sorry not the case.
so govt is not gonna change, it's only us which can do anything.

the poverty and all was just an example about the wrot in governance... i never said that scams are causing rapes...

Originally posted by: -Grace-

Im not blaming women in general or liberal at all but just saying that it all depends on the intention women or men (women actually dressing for attention now i dont know how much of that is true)

and i said even if they are dressing for attention its not a crime i think that is human nature to attract and get attracted but the rapists should have some control 

and i also live in Canada and i too feel women are not so safe anywhere. 

And i see your point too, usually women are the ones blamed