As soon as I heard about the controversy, I immediately downloaded a PDF of "The Hindus" out of curiosity. Ideally, anyone who reads a controversial book should have good prior knowledge of the subject matter. We don't live in an ideal world, but my curiosity reflects the biggest paradox of attempting book bans. You made a book one never heard of or would have cared for before into must have, must read. Conservative Hindus have ironically become the best marketing for Wendy Doniger than anyone else.
Couple of things
We have to be careful to separate India the country from Hinduism the religion. Hinduism at its peak spread from Afghanistan to Indonesia. Today there are Hindus almost in every nation. While India the country is young, the religion is one of the oldest surviving religion. There are Hindus who have never set foot in India. There are the Balinese and other South East Asians who also adhere to Hinduism in their own way. I find it quite illogical and unfair when "Indians" try to establish themselves as gatekeepers of the religion.
I don't think legitimacy is guaranteed by acknowledgment. Most people fail to acknowledge Wiccan, Voodoo, Shamanism and many other ancient nature based religions that still survive today. But within the followers it is legitimate and true. However, we do live in a global world. Whether we will it or not some sort of acknowledgement and acceptance is necessary. This acknowledgement and acceptance allows freedom of faith. It encourages sharing of faith. It promotes learning so that people don't misunderstand each other. So while I don't think we need western people to endorse Hinduism, in that aspect our faith in Hinduism is sufficient, we do need westerners to acknowledge and accept us as a faith. I think it is vital that westerners do have some sort of curiosity to learn and study Hinduism. We want people to be better aware of Hinduism.
I wasn't aware that counter books existed which is why I suggested that counter books be written. If the counter books exist then we need to promote them more. At least someone should take the boiling controversy as a means to publicize these works. If as you say Doniger's books are the authoritative texts for Hindu studies across the world, we need to make the push to include insider Hindu perspectives in the curriculum as well. Public debates are also a great tool. Debate her in an auditorium in the Chicago University she teaches. The recent Bill Nye debate shows that even when you go up against someone who has made up their mind, it is an excellent tool to educate masses and raise awareness of issues.
Conservative Hindus have ironically become the best marketing for Wendy Doniger than anyone else. Word.
Couple of things
We have to be careful to separate India the country from Hinduism the religion. Hinduism at its peak spread from Afghanistan to Indonesia. Today there are Hindus almost in every nation. While India the country is young, the religion is one of the oldest surviving religion. There are Hindus who have never set foot in India. There are the Balinese and other South East Asians who also adhere to Hinduism in their own way. I find it quite illogical and unfair when "Indians" try to establish themselves as gatekeepers of the religion.
True, but the mythological origin point for most of the popular literature is India. I won't call it unfair, religion is free to be anyone's right. Some would be pacific about it while others agressive. Indians take religion too sensitively as for most they symbolize everything and their whole existence. I am aware of Hindu protests in Nepal and Bali too , but considering the economic shift and global eye on India , the spotlight is more on Indians. This literature, particularly, dealt directly with Hinduism and its subsequent caste system in India, hence the protest. also it has to do with association, you say Sati and a normal reaction will insinuate towards India. You mention Ram to anyone outside India and they will link him to only India. Hence by default Indians do tend to be most identified Hindus.
I don't think legitimacy is guaranteed by acknowledgment. Most people fail to acknowledge Wiccan, Voodoo, Shamanism and many other ancient nature based religions that still survive today. But within the followers it is legitimate and true. However, we do live in a global world. Whether we will it or not some sort of acknowledgement and acceptance is necessary. This acknowledgement and acceptance allows freedom of faith. It encourages sharing of faith. It promotes learning so that people don't misunderstand each other. So while I don't think we need western people to endorse Hinduism, in that aspect our faith in Hinduism is sufficient, we do need westerners to acknowledge and accept us as a faith. I think it is vital that westerners do have some sort of curiosity to learn and study Hinduism. We want people to be better aware of Hinduism.
No we don't need endorsement or acknowledgment for our beliefs yet Indians do suffer from the need to have it. Right from the fair skin tone to hoping for an Hollywood mention. Most do tend to look at west with a sort of reverence. The point is not that Hinduisms or Indians need this endorsement, but that they do seek it because of their issues. Wrong but understandable. Religion is not anyone's personal property, it is a thought, can be studied , read and practiced by anyone including the curious Westerner.
I wasn't aware that counter books existed which is why I suggested that counter books be written. If the counter books exist then we need to promote them more. At least someone should take the boiling controversy as a means to publicize these works. If as you say Doniger's books are the authoritative texts for Hindu studies across the world, we need to make the push to include insider Hindu perspectives in the curriculum as well. Public debates are also a great tool. Debate her in an auditorium in the Chicago University she teaches. The recent Bill Nye debate shows that even when you go up against someone who has made up their mind, it is an excellent tool to educate masses and raise awareness of issues.
Hades - This book has been around and so has Doniger for years now, there have been debates regarding this and otherwise, but the fact that most have not got publicity indicates how these discussions catch mass public sentiments.Someone might win an argument in a closed auditoruim in Chicago or in Delhi, but it will never be enough to satiate every involved party nor will it dispel all the myths in both worlds. Especially the right wings in India who don't have excess to such views, they don't read the book but are swayed by what they have is a feeling of betryed and insulted. The start has to be with the education everywhere, the fight should be to give every point of view without bias and let them make their own opinion. Till then , authors should exploit their right to freedom with a moral intent.
@Genie - not quoting to try and keep shorter 😆
I don't think mythological origin
should make such an impact. Most religions have roots in one region but a
spread globally. Even in Hinduism. Most of the Gods and myths were of North
Indian origin, but South India adapted it and developed its own mythos and Gods
as well. It is natural to feel the need to possess and protect faith. However,
I think in doing so Indians have somewhat constrained "Hinduism" and limited
its potential of further organic growth.
Maybe Doniger and her work have
been around for decades. But the controversy is now. I think we ought to have
capitalized on it. Either way something needs to be done to get not only westerners
but Indians too get exposure to various works on religion and critically
thinking about it. I feel that all the attention has been either on shunning
Doniger or lauding Doniger, while the issue of understanding Hinduism is pushed
aside.
Indians need a lot more exposure
to religious works. I think Devdutt Pattanaik has done a good job of compiling
myths and interpretations. Many Indians believe in Gods or follow rituals, but
have very little knowledge of Hinduism through ages. Even the Hindutva
activists don't really understand the religion and their hardened conservative
tactics are driving the youth and liberals away from Hinduism. I think that
explains why people blame "Hindu myth" for mistreatment of women/lower caste
etc. and not the "discriminating people".
To me modern day Hinduism is more like a house where everyone is fixated on aspects of the house like the doors, the windows, the appliances, but we have lost sight of what makes the house a home.
Is it in Om written in Hindi or English or another text?
I think it is a combination of coincidence and mind tricks.
Back in the day when aliens were in vogue and Mars was being studied, reputed astronomers claimed to see intricate canal networks on Mars and recreated canal network drawings. These were to be proof that water and civilization once existed or exists in Mars. Later on after many missions that were unfruitful it was determined that these canal networks were a combination of coincidence and mind tricks. Some canal like structures do exist, but the faith in finding water made people see it into way beyond what it was.
That aside. What if there are divine symbols, words, messages planted all over earth in hieroglyphics or languages we just cannot read? If God were to leave a sign for his people what would it be Mandarin - the most spoken, English - the most popular, Hebrew, Latin, Sanskrit?
Topic started by enigmatic_zephy
Last replied by LeadNitrate