Poor James!! :P - Page 6

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beutifulppl

@beutifulppl

Senior Member

Posted: 9 years ago

I think that you people did stray away from the given topic. It was: James was not given as much importance as Lily in Harry's life.

You ended with: James and Lily are/are not a perfect match and James was too mean to Snape, Harry was never as mean to Dean

~raises eyebrows~

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983175

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: beutifulppl
I think that you people did stray away from the given topic. It was: James was not given as much importance as Lily in Harry's life.
You ended with: James and Lily are/are not a perfect match and James was too mean to Snape, Harry was never as mean to Dean

~raises eyebrows~

I beg to differ..the topic here was actually a funny take on James's diminished importance as compared to Lily in the wizarding world..while many here felt that it was unfair to James , I on the other hand completely agree with the wizarding world..those favouring James brought up their own arguments to support their statement n I brought up my own arguments to support my own statement ..n the whole ' Lily-James aspect or James-Snape vs Harry-Dean n so on' was actually all a part of this discussion itself..

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bookworm-ALS--

@bookworm-ALS--

IF-Stunnerz

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Akash005

Yes nobody is perfect , everybody has their flaws and even Dumbledore is not an exception to this rule..so yeah, Lily too might have had her own flaws like everybody else, however, there is no question about her pure heart..in fact , it was to such an extent that I honestly felt like James was no match for her..a sentiment that was shared by Harry as well..he couldn't understand how his mother could go on to marry a man like James.. Harry's mind went as far as speculating whether his dad had gotten his mother to marry him by force or magic, n thank god this insinuation was strongly opposed and put to rest by both Serius n Lupin..

yeah, he just saw his dad in the worst light possible, no wonder he thought that😛 I believe both James and Lily had pure hearts, and despite their faults were good people. 😊

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bookworm-ALS--

@bookworm-ALS--

IF-Stunnerz

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Akash005

Is that the only instance from the book that would support the statement?.. if that is the case, then I beg to differ..Harry wasn't fully convinced after his talk with Serious n Lupin, he accepted those justifications only half heartedly mainly bcoz he knew he had no other choice..

I beg to differ. In Order of the Phoenix, after Snape's Worst Memory, Harry saw his father in the worst possible light. He was pretty ashamed. But after he spoke to Sirius, I believe it is implied that Harry stopped "idolizing" his father as some kind of god, obviously, but accepted and believed that James grew up and memories of his father didn't trouble him.

Quote from OWLs :

They spread their books out in the shade of the beech tree and sat down while Ron talked them through his first save of the match for what felt like the dozenth time.

'Well, I mean, I'd already let in that one of Daviess, so I wasn't feeling all that confident, but I dunno, when Bradley came towards me, just out of nowhere, I thought - you can do this! And I had about a second to decide which way to fly, you know, because he looked like he was aiming for the right goalhoop - my right, obviously, his left - but I had a funny feeling that he was feinting, and so I took the chance and flew left - his right, I mean - and - well - you saw what happened,' he concluded modestly, sweeping his hair back quite unnecessarily so that it looked interestingly windswept and glancing around to see whether the people nearest

to them - a bunch of gossiping third-year Hufflepuffs - had heard him. 'And then, when Chambers came at me about five minutes later - What?' Ron asked, having stopped mid-sentence at the look on Harry's face. 'Why are you grinning?'

'I'm not,' said Harry quickly, and looked down at his Transfiguration notes, attempting to straighten his lace. The truth was that Ron had just reminded Harry forcibly of another Gryffindor Quidditch player who had once sat rumpling his hair under this very tree. 'I'm just glad we won, that's all.'

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bookworm-ALS--

@bookworm-ALS--

IF-Stunnerz

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Akash005

c now, this is where we have diametrically opposite views n opinions...

lily was a pure soul like a unicorn.. may b ur opinion abt her stems from the fact that while lily was very compassionate to everybody unlike james ( which was very evident in her interactions with her elder sister pitunia who hated her and snape whom everybody including james disliked), she was also very fierce , opiniated , independent n brave who wasnt afraid to stand up for what she belives is right ( she fierecely depended snape against james but also did not bother to take any bull shit from snape either).. it is a quality that she shares in common with ginny.. ginny is very much like lily ( she fierecely defends luna against bullies just like lily defended snape against bullies)..in fact its just not the qualities but i also felt even looks wise ginny resembled lily a lot.. a classic fictional testimony to the fact that boys prefer girls like their mothers n girls seek men like their fathers..😆..

so 4 me , ur original statement will b modified to the following:

I always thought James had a cruel/vindictive streak in him. Especially in OoTP.

James is one of my fav characters, but he certainly isnt perfect.

n yeah, poor james !...😆

Ah. See, this is how everybody glosses over Lily.
Remember Snape's Worst Memory and what Lily said at the end?

"I'd wash your pants if I were you, Snivellus."

Yes, I agree if was AFTER he called her Mudblood, but dragging out Snape's poverty in the open? Calling him the name his most hated enemy gave him?

It would hurt Snape far far more than anything James did and she knew it. That's why she said it.

Also, to Petunia, "You didn't think it was such a freak's school when you wrote to Dumbledore and begged him to take you."

Again, with the intention to hurt her.

Yes, Lily was vindictive.

And yes, she also almost smiled when James hoisted Snape into the air the first time.

Lily, whose furious expression had twitched for an instant as though she was going to smile, said, 'Let him down!'

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bookworm-ALS--

@bookworm-ALS--

IF-Stunnerz

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

^ Again, off topic, but I believe Harry inherited this very trait from Lily, too.

Oh, and Ginny is most definitely vindictive.

Edited by bookworm-ALS-- - 9 years ago

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983175

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: bookworm-ALS--
I beg to differ. In Order of the Phoenix, after Snape's Worst Memory, Harry saw his father in the worst possible light. He was pretty ashamed. But after he spoke to Sirius, I believe it is implied that Harry stopped "idolizing" his father as some kind of god, obviously, but accepted and believed that James grew up and memories of his father didn't trouble him.
Quote from OWLs :

They spread their books out in the shade of the beech tree and sat down while Ron talked them through his first save of the match for what felt like the dozenth time.
'Well, I mean, I'd already let in that one of Daviess, so I wasn't feeling all that confident, but I dunno, when Bradley came towards me, just out of nowhere, I thought - you can do this! And I had about a second to decide which way to fly, you know, because he looked like he was aiming for the right goalhoop - my right, obviously, his left - but I had a funny feeling that he was feinting, and so I took the chance and flew left - his right, I mean - and - well - you saw what happened,' he concluded modestly, sweeping his hair back quite unnecessarily so that it looked interestingly windswept and glancing around to see whether the people nearest
to them - a bunch of gossiping third-year Hufflepuffs - had heard him. 'And then, when Chambers came at me about five minutes later - What?' Ron asked, having stopped mid-sentence at the look on Harry's face. 'Why are you grinning?'
'I'm not,' said Harry quickly, and looked down at his Transfiguration notes, attempting to straighten his lace. The truth was that Ron had just reminded Harry forcibly of another Gryffindor Quidditch player who had once sat rumpling his hair under this very tree. 'I'm just glad we won, that's all.'

@ bold..THERE!!!... THAT IS EXACTLY what I was talking about..completely agree with that..hmmm..then I wonder y u begged to differ?..😕

@ bold and underlined... Harry didn't allow himself to b bothered by those thoughts..he chose not to dwell upon the subject, never discussed anything about it with his best friends since this piece of information is very personal and shameful for him just like it is for Snape.. Harry didn't make a big deal out of it bcoz he knew it wasn't in his hands, there wasn't a choice except to accept it n move on..

@ the quote from the book ( I love u for doing this, it always makes things easier)... clearly Harry had stopped thinking of James as some sort of godly hero but now he is more like any other self absorbed teenage guy as far as Harry is concerned.. can u imagine what it must take for such a downfall of opinion?.. clearly what James did or what James was, always bothered Harry..the only thing that he felt good about is to stop idolizing anyone blindly, everybody is human being after all n it was unreasonable for him to expect his father to b a God rather than a human..that was the ultimate self realization that Harry had in this case..

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bookworm-ALS--

@bookworm-ALS--

IF-Stunnerz

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

I was expressing a different opinion to the person who said that Harry believed Sirius and Lupin because he had no other choice. I differ because Harry had the choice to stubbornly cling to the belief that his father was a right idiot. He didn't.

Well of course. Who wouldn't think the worst, seeing like that? But Harry never saw why Lily agreed to date James in the first place. I am sure if it had been Lily's or McGongall's or Dumbledore's memories where he saw James, he would have seen him in a far more positive light.

So, yeah he saw James in a more "human" light , as a person who had flaws and grew out of it. That's it.

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983175

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: bookworm-ALS--

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983175

Posted: 9 years ago

@ bookworm-ALS--

If pointing out how someone isn't perfect makes them a villain then I'm sorry but I'm out of this conversation.

First of all, m sorry if my choice of words offended u, that wasn't the intention.. by ' villain' I didn't mean a full fledged villian like umbridge or voldermort , I just used it as a of figure of speech which was supposed to b taken in a ' person with cruel/vindictive streak' sort of way..but my apologies nevertheless.. I c that this thread was created by u, so if anyone should b out of this conversation or out of this thread, it should b me..n I swear this is my last post on this thread, won't trouble u anymore, will b gone in a jiffy ..so peace..😊

I find it very amusing how so many people hail the very same qualities in Lily that they hate in James.

Yes, that is exactly y I thought it was necessary to present my point of view about Lily...because if u compare those 'qualities' of James and Lily as such and out of context, it is only but natural that anyone would find "glossing" over Lily absurd..my point being , please look at the context n reasons for their respective vendictive actions, n u ll know y people favour Lily over James..if u consider the reason and context for Lily's actions then her vindictive/ cruel streak instantly turns into fierce, brave and noble personality ..however, if u consider the context and reasons for James's actions , it doesn't make much of a difference for him , his hatred of Snape rooted in Snape's love of dark arts and proximity with Lily is just not enough to justify what he did to Snape.. so unlike Lily, in James's case those 'qualities' remain just that 'negative qualities'..

Taking no bullshit is absolutely fine and I am all for it. But dragging someone else's personal , most shameful things into public...No.

Again, please consider the context here..this isn't about Lily being cruel or vindictive towards someone..this is about Lily standing her own ground when Snape called her the most offensive name in the wizarding world ' mud blood' and too right after she saved him James's torture..in fact I believe that meaning of this act is two fold - one, Lily can take care of herself, she is not a damsel in distress who waits for her prince to rescue and defend her which btw James was only too eager to do and secondly, by taking the offensive stand she saved Snape from further trouble that could have been caused due to James's rage over 'mud blood' slang ..this calmed down James and Snape was saved from any more public humiliation for the second time..

I never proclaimed James as a saint and I won't. But I will always say that BOTH Lily and James were human, had flaws, and were not perfect. Which, does not make either of them a villain, or unworthy of the other.

Thank you.

Agreed!!!.. no second opinion here!!!

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