FRUSTRATION WITH DUMBLEDORE !!!! - Page 4

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@twila

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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: vibhashekhar
Agreed, but is it only about proving himself to Dumbledore? Uhhh just realised what I posted is totally not related to the original topic 🤣
But I still say Harry had a choice whether or not to follow Dumbledore's words.

And do you think what he did was right?

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ExpectoPatronum

@ExpectoPatronum

IF-Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: twila

And do you think what he did was right?

In Harry's case yes he did right by following Dumbledore's words as he was always there no matter when to help Harry!
1st year: he accidentally let slip about working of the mirror of erised
2nd year: well it was Dumbledore's phoenix
3rd year: he suggested Hermione to use the time turner
4th year: not much but he supported Harry on Voldemort's return issue
5th year: he fought against Voldemort in ministry of magic
6th year: told about horcruxes
given all these I'd say Harry could definitely trust Dumbledore!!!

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@twila

IF-Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: vibhashekhar

In Harry's case yes he did right by following Dumbledore's words as he was always there no matter when to help Harry!
1st year: he accidentally let slip about working of the mirror of erised
2nd year: well it was Dumbledore's phoenix
3rd year: he suggested Hermione to use the time turner
4th year: not much but he supported Harry on Voldemort's return issue
5th year: he fought against Voldemort in ministry of magic
6th year: told about horcruxes
given all these I'd say Harry could definitely trust Dumbledore!!!

If Harry had never gone looking for horcruxes... Well, that's an alternative no one can imagine!

But Harry would really have not been able to do anything without the help of Ron and Hermione...

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ExpectoPatronum

@ExpectoPatronum

IF-Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

@twila
that's absolutely true!!!

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983175

Posted: 9 years ago

1st year: Harry saves Philosopher's Stone, WITH the help of Ron and Hermione. Ron did the Chess thing, Hermione solved the Potions puzzle and fended off the Devil's Snare. She also knocked Quirrel off his feet which saved Harry, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about him right now! Harry did everything with the help of his two friends. As for baby Harry, he survived because of his mother.

Yes agreed , baby Harry hadn't proved himself bcoz the only reason that he was saved from Voldermort's killing curse was Lily's sacrifice thereby enabling him a magical protection .. but even then Harry was already the chosen one because Voldemort marked him as his equal by attacking him, owing to his incomplete knowledge of prophecy..otherwise the chosen one could have been either Harry or Nivelle..but still, baby Harry didn't do anything worth wile bcoz let's face it, he was just a baby..

Fast forward to first year at Hogwarts .. by the end of the year Harry, Hermione and Ron , all had proved themselves... just bcoz Ron and Hermione helped Harry doesn't mean Harry didn't prove himself , it means all three of them proved themselves at such young age..

2nd Year: Harry saves Ginny: WITH the help of Fawkes and the Sorting Hat. Furthermore, it was Ron's malfunctioning wand that caused Lockhart to loose his memory or Harry would be in St. Mungo's forever! Even further, Hermione found that page about the Basilisk.

Yes, in 2nd year Harry had luck ( Ron's broken wand) and help ( Fawkes, sorting hat and Hermione's notes) to aid him in saving Ginny and fighting off Basilisk and come back alive..but how on earth does that diminish Harry's bravery, courage, initiative and efforts in the tasks?.. given those help n luck , would anyone else in the second year or even 7th year have been able to achieve what Harry did ?.. I dont think so..if you ask me, Harry had already proven himself to b worthy chosen one by the end of his 2nd year at Hogwarts itself..

3rd year: Harry fended off Dementor's only and only because Lupin taught him. He saved Sirius and Buckbeak because Hermione had a time turner.

Yes, Lupin taught Harry to fight off dementors but it was only Harry's will power, efforts and natural talent that helped him achieve something that even the most able ( n that includes lupin as well) wizards find it difficult to achieve .I.e. fighting off hundreds of dementors with a full fledged petronous at the age of 13!!..

Yes, Dumbledore suggested using Hermione's time turner for saving buckbeak and serius , but who saved them?..just having the time turner alone wasn't going to rescue buckbeak and serius.. it was Harry and Hermione's immense bravery that led them to complete the task successfully.. both Harry and Hermione proved themselves here..

4th year: He was helped by Moody indirectly in all three tasks and was only able to get away from Voldemort because of the wand core's connecting.

Yes, in 4th year Moody indirectly helped Harry to complete the task, however, for the first two tasks Moody's help was only in terms of minor clues whereas the successful completion of the tasks was completely done on the basis of Harry's own skill, talent and efforts..

Even in the graveyard, Harry did not surrender to Voldemort wherein he was surrounded by 100s of death eaters n Voldemort himself .. true, the twin core connection of the wands helped him tremendously but the successful getting away together with Cedric's body was achieved due to Harry's own bravery and efforts.. the twin core connection of the wands would not have helped Harry if he had gotten afraid to fight the adult Voldermort himself in the midst of 100s of death eaters at the age of 14!!

5th year: Well... He was easily fooled by Voldemort and refused to listen to the people who were correct. Then, the Death Eater's did not murder him right there because he was holding the prophecy. Later, Dumbledore comes to save the day with the Order.

Yes, in his 5th year Harry was fooled by Voldemort, but how did this happen?.. is it not because Voldmort was sure that Harry would come to rescue serius no matter what?.. because he knew Harry was a Dumbledore deciple who values love n relationship above anything else unlike him?.. a worthy quality for the chosen one, right?

Plus, Harry was being repeatedly possessed by Voldmort until Voldy had a close brush off with Harry's pure soul which prevented him to possess Harry ever again..yet another worthy proof of the chosen one..

Sixth year: Nothing happened except that Dumbledore died! Harry didn't really fight anything or anyone...

Yes, no major fights took place with Harry in the sixth year..but is a 'fight' always necessary to prove one's worth?.. Harry and his friends always stood by the good side, no matter what, fight or no fight, n that definitely says something about their worth..

If I'm wrong, then there would have been absolutely no reason for the last book!

My point exactly!! Dumbledore had no reason to test Harry during the Horcrux task instead he could have been straightforward about his knowledge of hallows n not leave the unnecessary puzzles pertaining to the hollows which consumed even more time , energy and effort for the the leading trio..instead of taking tests he should have assisted them directly without puzzles ( n that includes his portrait at Hogwarts).. because after all the leading trio were just 3 teenagers who have proved their worth n devotion on numerous occasions n were burdened with the task saving the magical as well as muggle population.. but instead, dumbledore left puzzles to make the seventh n last book even more suspenseful to the readers..thats the only justification...

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983175

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: twila

Of course he had to!

1st year: Harry saves Philosopher's Stone, WITH the help of Ron and Hermione. Ron did the Chess thing, Hermione solved the Potions puzzle and fended off the Devil's Snare. She also knocked Quirrel off his feet which saved Harry, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about him right now! Harry did everything with the help of his two friends. As for baby Harry, he survived because of his mother.

2nd Year: Harry saves Ginny: WITH the help of Fawkes and the Sorting Hat. Furthermore, it was Ron's malfunctioning wand that caused Lockhart to loose his memory or Harry would be in St. Mungo's forever! Even further, Hermione found that page about the Basilisk.

3rd year: Harry fended off Dementor's only and only because Lupin taught him. He saved Sirius and Buckbeak because Hermione had a time turner.

4th year: He was helped by Moody indirectly in all three tasks and was only able to get away from Voldemort because of the wand core's connecting.

5th year: Well... He was easily fooled by Voldemort and refused to listen to the people who were correct. Then, the Death Eater's did not murder him right there because he was holding the prophecy. Later, Dumbledore comes to save the day with the Order.

Sixth year: Nothing happened except that Dumbledore died! Harry didn't really fight anything or anyone...

If I'm wrong, then there would have been absolutely no reason for the last book!

Also, if above quoted is anything to go by then Harry NEVER proved himself, not even in the last book.. Harry won the duel with Voldermort only bcoz the elder wand had ACCIDENTALLY given him his allegiance... it was purely luck!!.. Harry never proved his worth !!

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@twila

IF-Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

I never said that the help given to him diminished his bravery or courage! It is practically the only reason why J.K.R wrote DH. Harry said it himself, "Dumbledore wanted me to prove my worth" when Hermione told him that if Dumbledore wanted him to find the hallows he could have told him while he was alive. Dumbledore wanted Harry to find everything himself and prove his worth! Another way around this would be that if Dumbledore wanted the Hallows, he could have simply made Harry stun him or something and then give him the stone because he already had the cloak. But he didn't, because then Harry wouldn't have been worthy of the hallows.

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983175

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: twila
I never said that the help given to him diminished his bravery or courage! It is practically the only reason why J.K.R wrote DH. Harry said it himself, "Dumbledore wanted me to prove my worth" when Hermione told him that if Dumbledore wanted him to find the hallows he could have told him while he was alive. Dumbledore wanted Harry to find everything himself and prove his worth! Another way around this would be that if Dumbledore wanted the Hallows, he could have simply made Harry stun him or something and then give him the stone because he already had the cloak. But he didn't, because then Harry wouldn't have been worthy of the hallows.

Yes, I totally agree with u on this front..

In fact whenever Harry n others used to get frustrated with Dumbledore's puzzles (like me) it was the only justification...justification that it was Dumbledore's style..that it seems like the sort of mental thing (Ron's words 😆) that Dumbledore would do..that Dumbledore made it all difficult n confusing on purpose so that Harry could prove himself..n that's exactly where my frustration begins..I fail to c y Dumbledore needed any more proof of Harry's worth, intentions, pure heart, nobility, modesty,humility, love,bravery, commitment,devotion n so on than he already had..

I suppose the biggest reason that Dumbledore didn't trust Harry with the hollows is bcoz of Dumbledore's own guilt owing to his own past with the hallows..however, Dumbledore seriously underestimated Harry here and Dumbledore himself confessed it at the king's cross in the afterlife.. Harry definitely forgave Dumbledore then..but my frustration as a reader wasn't over..I still fail to understand y the puzzles would make Harry more worthy than he actually was..moreover, it wasn't the time for taking tests n seeing worth which all the leads had already proved in the past on numerous occasions..but it was the time to assist them every which way he could without making it complicated with puzzles.. bcoz they were after all just 3 teenagers on an enormous task of saving the magical n muggle population.. n these teenagers had proved their worth n devotion countless times b4..so like I said b4, the only purpose of those unnecessary puzzles were to make the read even more suspenseful for the readers..bcoz this proving the worth thing in such perilous times n that too for someone who didn't need anymore proving than what he already did, just doesn't fit in here..

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@twila

IF-Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 9 years ago

Another thing I don't understand is why Dumbledore wasn't sure about Harry's bravery and the pureness of his heart. If Harry was not brave, courageous or any of the things that he was supposed to be, why would the prophecy even mention him?

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983175

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: twila
Another thing I don't understand is why Dumbledore wasn't sure about Harry's bravery and the pureness of his heart. If Harry was not brave, courageous or any of the things that he was supposed to be, why would the prophecy even mention him?

Yes, exactly that's what I was getting at.. Dumbledore has a very complicated personality... well, if u really think about it all geniuses have a complicated personality.. Dumbledore's lack of trust in Harry in my opinion MAY HAVE BEEN due to the following 3 reasons-

1. He was never able to get over his guilt of loosing Ariana in the midst of his teenage obsession with hallows, which made him realize that just like any other evil wizard his weakness lies in power hunger, which is y he completely shunned away everything that gave him more position of authority than he already had ( he refused to b minister of magic instead he was content with being the advisor of the ministers whenever required).. so there u go, Dumbledore's lack of trust began with himself..n he viewed Harry through the same point of view..he was especially worried abt Harry's teenage hot head which might end up dominating his pure soul.. however, Dumbledore could not have been more wrong about Harry..he seriously underestimated Harry due to his own past guilt..the irony here is, Harry hated that Dumbledore easily trusts people (Snape) n that led him to his death but the truth is Dumbledore neither trusted Snape nor did he trust Harry completely.." secrets" is an intrinsic part of being Dumbledore..

2. Only Dumbledore was aware that Harry himself was a horcrux..and well that could b a reason not to trust Harry.. but it sounds horrible though..Dumbledore-Harry had a very unique bonding..n if this is the case, then all that bonding was actually a lie and what Snape said might have been true "u have been raising him as a pig for meat".. very sad indeed..

3. Well the third reason is what I have been repeating so far, Dumbledore had no reason to leave complicated puzzles for the teenagers and also had no reason to test their worth further, it was done purely to add suspense/climax/thrill to the story for the readers to enjoy (or get frustrated😆).

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FRUSTRATION WITH DUMBLEDORE !!!! - Page 4

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