FRUSTRATION WITH DUMBLEDORE !!!! - Page 5

Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by twila


Another thing I don't understand is why Dumbledore wasn't sure about Harry's bravery and the pureness of his heart. If Harry was not brave, courageous or any of the things that he was supposed to be, why would the prophecy even mention him?

Also, about "the prophecy".. hmm..honestly to me, Dumbledore doesn't sound like someone who would just blindly follow/ trust a prophecy either..for him logic, reasoning , suspicions and secrecy was far above than any prophecy..

 Now that I have come to think of it, m not even sure what the prophecy meant ( a testimony to my poor understanding since prophecy kept popping up every now n then through out the series..😆).. but every time the prophecy was mentioned it sounded a bit different than the previously mentioned prophecy..I m obviously wrong but that's how it sounded to me..I also feel that among the harry potter readers only a few have been successfully able to gauge the real meaning of the prophecy.. n that's saying something bcoz each n every minute aspect of the prophecy was explained in the 5th book..I still feel there is more to it..hmm..may b I should start another thread to know people's various interpretations of the prophecy.. as of now , it is as simple as "neither can live while the other survives".. as in only one among Harry or Voldemort was going to survive ( one was going to die for sure n the other was going to live for sure).. but I think there's more to it than just that..
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by Akash005



Also, about "the prophecy".. hmm..honestly to me, Dumbledore doesn't sound like someone who would just blindly follow/ trust a prophecy either..for him logic, reasoning , suspicions and secrecy was far above than any prophecy..

 Now that I have come to think of it, m not even sure what the prophecy meant ( a testimony to my poor understanding since prophecy kept popping up every now n then through out the series..😆).. but every time the prophecy was mentioned it sounded a bit different than the previously mentioned prophecy..I m obviously wrong but that's how it sounded to me..I also feel that among the harry potter readers only a few have been successfully able to gauge the real meaning of the prophecy.. n that's saying something bcoz each n every minute aspect of the prophecy was explained in the 5th book..I still feel there is more to it..hmm..may b I should start another thread to know people's various interpretations of the prophecy.. as of now , it is as simple as "neither can live while the other survives".. as in only one among Harry or Voldemort was going to survive ( one was going to die for sure n the other was going to live for sure).. but I think there's more to it than just that..


I guess Dumbledore trusted the prophecy because it came from a true seer...

And the prophecy was mainly created by J.K.R to put emphasis on the 'neither can live while the other survives' part... (I think)
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by Akash005


Also, about "the prophecy".. hmm..honestly to me, Dumbledore doesn't sound like someone who would just blindly follow/ trust a prophecy either..for him logic, reasoning , suspicions and secrecy was far above than any prophecy..

 Now that I have come to think of it, m not even sure what the prophecy meant ( a testimony to my poor understanding since prophecy kept popping up every now n then through out the series..😆).. but every time the prophecy was mentioned it sounded a bit different than the previously mentioned prophecy..I m obviously wrong but that's how it sounded to me..I also feel that among the harry potter readers only a few have been successfully able to gauge the real meaning of the prophecy.. n that's saying something bcoz each n every minute aspect of the prophecy was explained in the 5th book..I still feel there is more to it..hmm..may b I should start another thread to know people's various interpretations of the prophecy.. as of now , it is as simple as "neither can live while the other survives".. as in only one among Harry or Voldemort was going to survive ( one was going to die for sure n the other was going to live for sure).. but I think there's more to it than just that..


I guess Dumbledore trusted the prophecy because it came from a true seer...

And the prophecy was mainly created by J.K.R to put emphasis on the 'neither can live while the other survives' part to show the readers that Harry has to kill Voldemort and that he can't possibly be sent back to the other side... (I think)
Edited by twila - 9 years ago
Posted: 9 years ago
Sorry to butt in. But this is a direct quote from HBP, and in regards to the prophecy I think this is important that everyone read this.

 "But Harry, never forget that what

the prophecy says is only significant because Voldemort made it so. I told

you this at the end of last year. Voldemort singled you out as the person who

would be most dangerous to him -- and in doing so, he made you the person

who would be most dan-gerous to him!"


"But it comes to the same --"

"No, it doesn't!" said Dumbledore, sounding impatient now. Pointing at

Harry with his black, withered hand, he said, "You are setting too much

store by the prophecy!"


"But," spluttered Harry, "but you said the prophecy means --"


"If Voldemort had never heard of the prophecy, would it have been

fulfilled? Would it have meant anything? Of course not! Ho you think every

prophecy in the Hall of Prophecy has been fulfilled?"


"But," said Harry, bewildered, "but last year, you said one of us would

have to kill the other --"


"Harry, Harry, only because Voldemort made a grave error, and acted on

Professor Trelawney's words! If Voldemort had never murdered your father,

would he have imparted in you a furious desire for revenge? Of course not!

If he had not forced your mother to die for you, would he have given you a

magical protection he could not penetrate? Of course not, Harry! Don't you

see? Voldemort himself created his worst enemy, just as tyrants everywhere

do! Have you any idea how much tyrants fear the people they oppress? All

of them realize that, one day, amongst their many victims, there is sure to be

one who rises against them and strikes back! Voldemort is no different!

Always he was on the lookout for the one who would challenge him. He

heard the prophecy and he leapt into ac-tion, with the result that he not only

handpicked the man most likely to finish him, he handed him uniquely

deadly weapons!"

"But --"


"It is essential that you understand this!" said Dumbledore, standing up

and striding about the room, his glittering robes swooshing in his wake;

Harry had never seen him so agitated. "By attempting to kill you, Voldemort

himself singled out the remark-able person who sits here in front of me, and

gave him the tools for the job! It is Voldemort's fault that you were able to

see into his thoughts, his ambitions, that you even understand the snakelike

language in which he gives orders, and yet, Harry, despite your privileged

insight into Voldemort's world (which, incidentally, is a gift any Death Eater

would kill to have), you have never been se-duced by the Dark Arts, never,

even for a second, shown the slight-est desire to become one of Voldemort's

followers!"


"Of course I haven't!" said Harry indignantly. "He killed my mum and

dad!"


"You are protected, in short, by your ability to love!" said Dum-bledore

loudly. "The only protection that can possibly work against the lure of power

like Voldemort's! In spite of all the temptation you have endured, all the

suffering, you remain pure of heart, just as pure as you were at the age of

eleven, when you stared into a mir-ror that reflected your heart's desire, and

it showed you only the way to thwart Lord Voldemort, and not immortality

or riches. Harry, have you any idea how few wizards could have seen what

you saw in that mirror? Voldemort should have known then what he was

dealing with, but he did not! But he knows it now. You have flitted into Lord

Voldemort's mind without damage to yourself, but he cannot possess you

with-out enduring mortal agony, as he discovered in the Ministry. I do not

think he understands why, Harry, but then, he was in such a hurry to mutilate

his own soul, he never paused to understand the incomparable power of a

soul that is untarnished and whole."


"But, sir," said Harry, making valiant efforts not to sound argu-mentative,

"it all comes to the same thing, doesn't it? I've got to try and kill him, or --"


"Got to?" said Dumbledore. "Of course you've got to! But not because of

the prophecy! Because you, yourself, will never rest until you've tried! We

both know it! Imagine, please, just for a moment,


that you had never heard that prophecy! How would you feel about

Voldemort now? Think!"


Harry watched Dumbledore striding up and down in front ol him, and

thought. He thought of his mother, his father, and Sinus. He thought of

Cedric Diggory. He thought of all the terrible deeds he knew Lord

Voldemort had done. A flame seemed to leap inside his chest, searing his

throat.


"I'd want him finished," said Harry quietly. "And I'd want to do it."


"Of course you would!" cried Dumbledore. "You see, the prophecy does

not mean you have to do anything! But the prophecy caused Lord Voldemort

to mark you as his equal. ... In other words, you are free to choose your way,

quite free to turn your back on the prophecy! But Voldemort continues to set

store by the prophecy. He will continue to hunt you . . . which makes it

certain, really, that --"


"That one of us is going to end up killing the other," said Harry. "Yes."
Posted: 9 years ago
So, in other words, Dumbledore did not set store by the prophecy. It could have gone either way, anyway.
But Voldemort's actions made the prophecy come true.
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by bookworm-ALS--


So, in other words, Dumbledore did not set store by the prophecy. It could have gone either way, anyway.
But Voldemort's actions made the prophecy come true.

Exactly my point!..😊.. n thank you for supporting it with evidence..👏
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by twila




I guess Dumbledore trusted the prophecy because it came from a true seer...

And the prophecy was mainly created by J.K.R to put emphasis on the 'neither can live while the other survives' part to show the readers that Harry has to kill Voldemort and that he can't possibly be sent back to the other side... (I think)

@ bold, yes I believe that was the whole point y Dumbledore ( J K R)  took the pains to explain the prophecy bit by bit to us, bcoz Harry and us (the readers) may have started to believe that Harry was turning evil after all ( his aggressive mood from the beginning since he was being kept in the dark and avoided by Dumbledore, him being possessed by Voldy ,his lack of judgement and stubbornness that led to Sirius's death n so on ).. it was to restore Harry's ( our) faith that he could NEVER b evil n that he was destined to finish off evil n not just bcoz of a prophecy but bcoz of his actions n deeds..

In fact even Dumbledore urges Harry not to set by any prophecy ( indirectly though, one must b able to read between the lines for that) bcoz doing that is for ignorant weaklings like Voldy.. what Harry must do, is just follow his pure heart like he always did.. in fact this very fact is emphasized by Dumbledore ( J K R) through that mirror of erised wherein Dumbledore ( J K R) urges Harry ( us) that it does not do well for a person to dwell in dreams..reality of life is much more important.. it was an indirect msg to us that yes, read Harry Potter for fun but do not get lost into it so much that u forget the real life .. I think J K R made sure to hide such msgs for her readers in this epic magical fantacy so that the readers dont get completly lost in her magical world, which was quite important for the well being of her target readers..quite a noble thing for a writer to do in my opinion!
Posted: 9 years ago
well... JKR has based the foundation of HP theme on Buddhist principles of courage, compassion and wisdom.
The equation between Dumbledore and Harry is that of a mentor and disciple...somewhat similar to Govind and Parth...with two exceptions: unlike Parth, Harry was not 100% devoted to Dumbledore, and Dumbledore unlike Govind wasn't the Almighty himself.



Edited by Lumos - 9 years ago
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by Lumos


well... JKR has based the foundation of HP theme on Buddhist principles of courage, compassion and wisdom.
The equation between Dumbledore and Harry is that of a mentor and disciple...somewhat similar to Govind and Parth...with two exceptions: unlike Parth, Harry was not 100% devoted to Dumbledore, and Dumbledore unlike Govind wasn't the Almighty himself.




Wow..if only twila and vibhashekhar read this..😕..they almost murdered me for this comparison!  🤣
Posted: 9 years ago
@Lumos: I disagree... I do not think that Dumbledore and Harry are similar to Krishna and Arjun. No offence to you, dear friend, but just because they're both heroes does not mean they're similar. If they're similar, why don't people say that Frodo and Gandalf are like Krishna and Arjun?

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