Idealism Vs Realism - Page 11

Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by K.Universe.




In that case,  we have to first outline what "coming into existence" means.

There are virtual particles and there are real particles. Basically, particles are ripples/disturbances in fields. Without getting into details, suffice it to say, if a particle is short lived, it is a virtual particle and if it is long-lived, it is a real particle.

Real particles support energy-momentum rule. Virtual particles break that rule.

To repeat, the difference between real and virtual is how long one survives.

Time defines what is real and what is virtual.



We have been down this road many times in other posts regarding this topic, it seems be most circular reference item in DM :)

Anyways, I will just leave you with this thought...

Can you observe "nothing", or conceive infinity, or a universe that always existed because we cannot process infinity...


Posted: 9 years ago
leading practices that need to be conceptualized to set the benchmark Vs pragmatic conceptions for deployment
But how can idealism be pure idealism.. isn't it mostly based on majority/society's norms.. no two people would agree on the best to-be case..


and what use is idealism if can't be achieved.. ever


On the other hand, getting caught up and limiting onself by perceived realistic potential is no good either..


guess at the end of the day, one needs idealistic theories across domains to keep the window of innovation, improvement, development open... and you need the sense to see reality to be able to comprehend the challenges and opportunities..


At times I think, should have become a doctor and studied cerebral science... what in this world is more complex, enigmatic, and beautiful than the musings of a mind...

bio-chemical-electricity-feedback system - u rock!






Posted: 9 years ago
I've always thought that the debate between the two is more about people's own ability to accept things beyond their own comprehension.
 
Given it's virtually impossible to prove anything from the past, someone will always be able to come up with a "what was before that?" type response to any new theory.
 
The simple fact is that no matter what side of the spectrum you fall on you need to understand how that affects how you'll move forward in life.
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by -Aarya-




We have been down this road many times in other posts regarding this topic, it seems be most circular reference item in DM :)

Anyways, I will just leave you with this thought...

Can you observe "nothing", or conceive infinity, or a universe that always existed because we cannot process infinity...




The crux of the debate concerns itself with what is fundamentally real so from that standpoint your questions were on the right track.

When hashing over linguistics (for instance, you said nobody knows what is really real) things have come full circle back to space-time because, prima facie, that's where reality as we know it is playing out, so a convergence of a few concepts that you think we already covered in other topics is but expected.

As for the question - can we observe "nothing": see, not all questions are logically valid as in they might not have a reasonable answer. One such example would be "what is the area of a square-circle?" Another would be "what color is sour?"

However, if by "nothing" you mean empty space or vacuum, then yes, it is measurable as that too has zero-point energy. Observation is not "seeing", it is measurement in scientific terms.


Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by K.Universe.




The crux of the debate concerns itself with what is fundamentally real so from that standpoint your questions were on the right track.

When hashing over linguistics (for instance, you said nobody knows what is really real) things have come full circle back to space-time because, prima facie, that's where reality as we know it is playing out, so a convergence of a few concepts that you think we already covered in other topics is but expected.

As for the question - can we observe "nothing": see, not all questions are logically valid as in they might not have a reasonable answer. One such example would be "what is the area of a square-circle?" Another would be "what color is sour?"

However, if by "nothing" you mean empty space or vacuum, then yes, it is measurable as that too has zero-point energy. Observation is not "seeing", it is measurement in scientific terms.



good points. 

But if we take idealism to it's extreme, we would have space-time and its measure as figments of our minds too.πŸ˜† Note that we already know that much of "external reality" is something we perceive in a form that is only as real as our perceptions... so what's stopping the big kahuna of spacetime also just being mental constructs. πŸ˜†  

take algebra. Certain prepositions are true in a certain algebra, false/ impossible/ undefined in different algebras. Even 2  + 2. In fact whoever said 2 plus 2 equals 4 never learned algebra beyond high school.πŸ˜†
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by BirdieNumNum



But if we take idealism to it's extreme, we would have space-time and its measure as figments of our minds too.πŸ˜† Note that we already know that much of "external reality" is something we perceive in a form that is only as real as our perceptions... so what's stopping the big kahuna of spacetime also just being mental constructs. πŸ˜† 


That's the idea πŸ˜Š I am just waiting for someone like Freethinker to jump in and ask for proof. Then it will all come out. Hamiltonians, Noether's theorems, the works! Confuse them sufficiently enough so as to elicit a bogus confession out of them, that, yes, this universe is indeed "unreal" πŸ˜†


take algebra. Certain prepositions are true in a certain algebra, false/ impossible/ undefined in different algebras. Even 2  + 2. In fact whoever said 2 plus 2 equals 4 never learned algebra beyond high school.πŸ˜†

Hmm..I am not quite sure what is going on here. It is true that proving 1+1=2 is tough but nevertheless it can be done. But once we do that, a proof for 2+2=4 should follow easily?




Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by K.Universe.




English please!

πŸ˜†
Ha ha ha... later K...hopefully
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by charminggenie


 
Angie - Profound and Deep😳!

If my limiting knowledge comprehends this well,then Consciousness on its own is in a state of "being-ness" ,a state of nothing-ness , perhaps can be referred as soul, but when it merges with a form like say human anatomy it develops into am-ness with knowledge and condition adding its growth (via the senses) . Consciousness becomes an internal voice or an internal reality for humans, providing the illusion of righteousness and superiority of our perceptions. This merging is what makes "The Self". But somewhere over the course of time, "Self" or "I"  has grown so much that it ceases to recognize its soul or it's "blank state" .  This Blank state can be the outside reality which we can never conceive because we have outgrown the phase due to all the learning, senses and conditioning. 

^^ probably got too confused with the thoughts, but well ,here is how I see it. 

Thanks Genie . I am too disoriented right now to really get all that : )) Hopefully we will be able to continue from where we left...soon.
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by K.Universe.



And I heard your call, now that's some real shit. πŸ˜†
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by Freethinker112




And I heard your call, now that's some real shit. πŸ˜†



Free!!!

You don't realize that you are just cataloging conscious experiences; what you think is real is nothing but a heuristic concept πŸ˜†

Translation; this sh!t is as real as you were Hugh Laurie.

Postscript: Hope you are doing good. Now, if you could drag in your arch-nemesis Vintage too, we could start our closed door meetings immediately after.
Edited by K.Universe. - 9 years ago

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