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Idealism Vs Realism - Page 3

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Summer3
Summer3 @Summer3 IF-Stunnerz
Anniversary 16 Group Promotion 7 + 2
Posted: 9 years ago
Interesting topic.
 
From what I read, it seems one is spiritual and the other materialistic.:
 
Idealism believes in what is beyond the senses, the spiritual and mental world and a search for Truth,  Beauty and Justice. It seems to be a search of perfection. A philosophical approach based on the tenet that there is one reality which is worth knowing.
Emphasis of studying is on reasoning and concepts with a Teacher to guide.
 
Quote: "Plato also believed that the soul is fully formed prior to birth and is perfect and at one with the Universal Being. The birth process checks this perfection, so education requires bringing latent ideas (fully formed concepts) to consciousness."
 
 
 
In Realism basically one believes in the objective world which the senses can cognize. Rational thinking and analysis is the purpose of human kind, expounded by Aristotle.
It speaks of systematic study and application of knowledge to understand, basically experimental learning.
 
 Quote: "Reality exists independent of the human mind. The ultimate reality is the world of physical objects. "
 
 
 
 
The other two school of thoughts are Pragmatism and Existentialism.
 
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charminggenie
charminggenie @charminggenie IF-Stunnerz
Anniversary 16 Group Promotion 7 + 2
Posted: 9 years ago
@Mr K, 
Like you said there are different versions of Idealism  and somehow I feel no singular expression can do complete justice to this theory.When I mention multiple perceptions , I do tend to enter the philosophical realm because one of most primary version of Idealism was given by Buddhism , which is also referred as "consciousness-only" or "mind-only".  

If I am spearheading the cause of Idealism , i would say to a large extent reality is dependent on mind. But there is a reality which exists outside the peripheral of our time-space framework.

Mind is above the casual dependence of chemical/physical/biological processes , Idealism gives strength to the argument in favor of consciousness. The power/energy that enables perception , is the supreme, if idealism is to be considered. 



 


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charminggenie
charminggenie @charminggenie IF-Stunnerz
Anniversary 16 Group Promotion 7 + 2
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by Summer3


Interesting topic.
 
From what I read, it seems one is spiritual and the other materialistic.:
 
Idealism believes in what is beyond the senses, the spiritual and mental world and a search for Truth,  Beauty and Justice. It seems to be a search of perfection. A philosophical approach based on the tenet that there is one reality which is worth knowing.
Emphasis of studying is on reasoning and concepts with a Teacher to guide.
 
Quote: "Plato also believed that the soul is fully formed prior to birth and is perfect and at one with the Universal Being. The birth process checks this perfection, so education requires bringing latent ideas (fully formed concepts) to consciousness."
 
 
 
In Realism basically one believes in the objective world which the senses can cognize. Rational thinking and analysis is the purpose of human kind, expounded by Aristotle.
It speaks of systematic study and application of knowledge to understand, basically experimental learning.
 
 Quote: "Reality exists independent of the human mind. The ultimate reality is the world of physical objects. "
 
 
 
 
The other two school of thoughts are Pragmatism and Existentialism.
 

Thanks Mr Summer, you put it succinctly .

So we have to first establish - the soul/consciousness  , to discuss this further- Mr K, would you please share your thoughts on time and space, it would give me a better idea to understand the framework from a realists perspective. 
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K.Universe.
K @K.Universe. IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 11 Group Promotion 4
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by Vinzy





😃




das Ding an sich! the-thing-in-itself! That's what the debate is about.


Need is subjective.


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K.Universe.
K @K.Universe. IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 11 Group Promotion 4
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by charminggenie




Mind is above the casual dependence of chemical/physical/biological processes



Why? How?
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charminggenie
charminggenie @charminggenie IF-Stunnerz
Anniversary 16 Group Promotion 7 + 2
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by K.Universe.




Why? How?

I see the idea of mind separate from the idea of brain, where ideas and emotions are transferred even through smells and facial expressions.
It is similar to wave-particle dualism in physics. Electron is not a particle, per se. But imagining it to be "a particle" allows some useful predictions, also considering it "like a wave" allows to explain other phenomena and make useful predictions. 
If ideas and emotions were the products of the nature of the brain, it would never be possible within the given laws of nature to transcend the system's functionality
The fact that we can have thoughts going beyond the biological restraints of our brain, proves the immateriality and independence of our mind from matter.
Mind is not a product of matter. but it needs the brain to express itself through the human body 
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charminggenie
charminggenie @charminggenie IF-Stunnerz
Anniversary 16 Group Promotion 7 + 2
Posted: 9 years ago
If I am not conscious of it, it doesn't exist.
I have a feeling , soon I would be arguing against the above statement. 
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K.Universe.
K @K.Universe. IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 11 Group Promotion 4
Posted: 9 years ago
I will continue with the questions till I get a sense of where you truly stand.So far, it looks like you are vacillating between realism and idealism, for no good reason. And some of the responses appear perfunctory. Too bad this is not politics/sports? :))

How about this? A human begins as a single cell. Each cell is considered irreducibly complex. You have enzymes such as ribosomes reading messenger RNA produced from the DNA and converting them into amino acid chains by taking nucleotides in sets of 3 to encode for 20 amino acids. In order for that to happen the cell must first transcribe the gene in the DNA into messenger RNA by using another enzyme called RNA polymerase. And the more details you look for. the more complex it gets. Some of it is still a black-box to us.

Question is, do you think a cell has a "mind" of its own to do all these tasks? How is it apparently on an auto-pilot?


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charminggenie
charminggenie @charminggenie IF-Stunnerz
Anniversary 16 Group Promotion 7 + 2
Posted: 9 years ago
That is because you have given me the task of speaking for Idealism, it is difficult for me not to be ambiguous as I am like that about this in real life. Believe in seeing the merit of both sides and using them for my convenience. Hence sponging off all the knowledge from here to consolidate my opinion on this topic further.  And I would concede I am narcissistic enough to not agree with the idea of me being all machine or programmed. 

And to your question like I mentioned previously, I do separate mind/consciousness away from the functioning of brain or bodily functions. So yes a cell is capable of having a consciousness , we might just not be sure of how it impacts the cell. 


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K.Universe.
K @K.Universe. IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 11 Group Promotion 4
Posted: 9 years ago
Don't worry Genie, you are doing great.

Question: is it possible that at different "levels", different "entities" are in "control"? So, for instance, "nature/evolution" is in control at the microscopic level of cells, we are in control at our macroscopic level and some other entity (?) is in control at the universal level?
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15 Participants 109 Replies 6802Views

Topic started by charminggenie

Last replied by K.Universe.

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