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Idealism Vs Realism - Page 6

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K.Universe.
K @K.Universe. IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 11 Group Promotion 4
Posted: 9 years ago
Direction as in guidance. Governance.

The scientific belief is that all natural processes are unguided. Yet, what we do is guided even though we are part of nature.

A CPU or an iPad cannot result out of unguided processes. We know that because we built them using intelligence. But DNA can. That's what the scientific stance is, sidestepping the fact that DNA is infinitely more complex than the best of what we built.
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K.Universe.
K @K.Universe. IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 11 Group Promotion 4
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by BirdieNumNum




For all we know, it's all an accident and intelligent design is the only possible outcome that could have arisen and survived the travails of big bang...




Definitely not one accident. A series of accidents. I don't know how many in that series but my educated guess is, PLENTY!
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charminggenie
charminggenie @charminggenie IF-Stunnerz
Anniversary 16 Group Promotion 7 + 2
Posted: 9 years ago
Messrs can we retire the word- Governance for sometime, please.

I think , Mr Bird, you brought in an interesting point with the whole time-space continuum , citing the whole  Einstein theory, but if I read that well, it supports that time and space are also illusions , except the energy , whose source might or might not be in the periphery of our framework. Or is it like the difference of perceptions doesn't matter because every energy blobs at the end have to submerge in the main energy source. So the duality in perceptions is just like reflection of left-right image formed on a mirror. With both perspectives being right. 

^^ doubt that will make sense, but well I am hitting atleast some darts. 

@Mr Bird-  I get the boredom too, would you believe my side of the pond had its own election craziness . 
Edited by charminggenie - 9 years ago
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K.Universe.
K @K.Universe. IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 11 Group Promotion 4
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by charminggenie




Messrs can we retire the word- Governance for sometime, please.




I will retire the word governance if you retire the word illusion :)

Illusion sounds like a cheap Copperfield trick I saw in Vegas :))
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charminggenie
charminggenie @charminggenie IF-Stunnerz
Anniversary 16 Group Promotion 7 + 2
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by K.Universe.




I will retire the word governance if you retire the word illusion :)

Illusion sounds like a cheap Copperfield trick I saw in Vegas :))


Done deal, anything for sanity and posh terminology. 
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-Aarya-
-Aarya- @-Aarya- IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 13 Group Promotion 4 Engager 1
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by BirdieNumNum



i think direction is intrinsically related to concept of time. If we can turn back the clock, as in travel faster than speed of light, then we dont have to deal with direction. Otherwise too, what our minds perceive as direction/ time is an artificial construct if we accept einstein's relativity- time is interwoven into spacetime and thinking of time as something in isolation does not make sense...

as for the distinctions drawn between large/ small DNA-sized particles, when it comes to "mind"/ free will, i dont think there's any. If there is free will at the macro level of humans, then there's free will at the subatomic level too (or so say some researchers)..

.I feel that our entire concept of reality is warped... What we perceive/ measure as matter is likely just energy... Our mind too is also likely just energy- our thoughts for one seem like abstract impulses more so than any mass of matter. Perhaps consciousness/ self-awareness too are a property of energy... blobs of energy thinking they are all distinct... Why that is so, i dont know...

coming back to the debate, it seems everything we perceive is just a mental construct. IF there is anything out there, then it is certainly not what we perceive it to be.

as for intelligent design, i dont believe it proves "mind". For all we know, it's all an accident and intelligent design is the only possible outcome that could have arisen and survived the travails of big bang...

@charmin=> me too. I am already bored with the whole election thing. Just glad to have Modi.



Isn't the world made of our sensing; our perception?  "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"  The answer really depends on, there is neither sound, nor tree, nor forest, nor fall ...without our perception!

I am merely on a fence for this topic...



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_Angie_
_Angie_ @_Angie_ IF-Sizzlerz
Anniversary 16 Group Promotion 6
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by -Aarya-


I am merely on a fence for this topic...
 
Goodness gracious Ms fence-sitter! Seeing your current signature, I was misled to think that you chose a side for once. 😆
 
 
 
Originally posted by -Aarya-


Isn't the world made of our sensing; our perception? "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" The answer really depends on, there is neither sound, nor tree, nor forest, nor fall ...without our perception!

Can there be any perception when there is nothing to perceive?
How does one conceptualise anything without having any prior experience to build upon?
 
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K.Universe.
K @K.Universe. IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 11 Group Promotion 4
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by _Angie_




Can there be any perception when there is nothing to perceive?




The senses evolved to receive environmental stimuli and respond to them.

Of course, the senses are not of much use without a nervous system so I guess they "co-evolved".

Regardless, it is safe to assume that the environment was there first and senses/nervous system came later?
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-Aarya-
-Aarya- @-Aarya- IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 13 Group Promotion 4 Engager 1
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by _Angie_


 
Goodness gracious Ms fence-sitter! Seeing your current signature, I was misled to think that you chose a side for once. 😆
 
 

Can there be any perception when there is nothing to perceive?
How does one conceptualise anything without having any prior experience to build upon?
 


Haha! If you ask me sitting on the fence has the best view of either side...

Can there be any perception when there is nothing to perceive?
It all depends what you consider as perception, something you see, hear, feel, experience, etc then the answer is yes else the answer will always be no.  But the tree does exist, it makes sound, it moves, so it does exist regardless you perceive or not.

How does one conceptualise anything without having any prior experience to build upon?
Doesn't it derive from your surrounding? So if you were to leave a new born child in forest without any connection to the real world (society, people, etc), how would the child grown up, where would he learn from , what's right vs wrong...etc

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BirdieNumNum
BirdieNumNum @BirdieNumNum IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 11 Group Promotion 4 Visit Streak 30 0
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by charminggenie


Messrs can we retire the word- Governance for sometime, please.

I think , Mr Bird, you brought in an interesting point with the whole time-space continuum , citing the whole  Einstein theory, but if I read that well, it supports that time and space are also illusions , except the energy , whose source might or might not be in the periphery of our framework. Or is it like the difference of perceptions doesn't matter because every energy blobs at the end have to submerge in the main energy source. So the duality in perceptions is just like reflection of left-right image formed on a mirror. With both perspectives being right. 

^^ doubt that will make sense, but well I am hitting atleast some darts. 

@Mr Bird-  I get the boredom too, would you believe my side of the pond had its own election craziness . 

😆 😆governance🥱

let's start with the tree question I would say there's no tree if there's no one around to perceive it. What might be there could be a blob of energy... but tree in it's form and sounds is something that is intertwined with perception.

einstein's relativity talks of spacetime continuity, and the inseparability of it. If you think of it in terms of space and time, then it's an illusion. If you think of it as a continuum then it might not be.

to my mind, digital existence/ separability/ distinct objects are all problematical... same goes for energy blobs. We perceive each other as distinct bodies perhaps because of how our system works. With a different nervous system, perhaps we'd see one blob blobbing into another in a continuum...  😊
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Last replied by K.Universe.

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