Improper upbringing responsible for the development of a Rapist-mind? - Page 6

In response to Zorro's comments

 

@Bold1 - No one said a mother's objection to short skirts was wrong. How she discusses that issue with her son is key concern here.

@Bold2 - We have reiterated many times - no one said anyone encouraged rape.

@Bold3 - We cannot have an ideal world, but we can strive to educate people to know best.

@Bold - No one denied that. Everyone admits that a certain factor is always nature.

@Final comment - I again reiterate no one said dislike for short skirt causes rape. All we stated is how a mother discusses short skirts may make her children susceptible to rape, sexual assault or s**t shaming.  

 

No one is ludicrous enough to say if mom dislikes short skirts, her son will be a rapist. I don't understand why you and Kanu are missing the point. The point is we have to change the way we impart conservative values. We have to complement it with respect for women and understanding that women have freedom and choose to live life differently.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

No one is ludicrous enough to say if mom dislikes short skirts, her son will be a rapist. I don't understand why you and Kanu are missing the point. The point is we have to change the way we impart conservative values. We have to complement it with respect for women and understanding that women have freedom and choose to live life differently.

Ah -thanks for the clarifications. Better late than never.  Some of the  earlier comments  did seem to suggest the ludicrous 😆  Howsoever a mother may discuss the issue of short skirts with her son I feel sure that no mother would instigate her son towards a crime. If he does so it has to be because of his own twisted mind. Discouragement or encouragement of any dress has nothing to do with it otherwise the rate of rapes in countries with a more liberal sense of dressing wouldn't be as high as they are reported to be.  Alcohol is a contributing factor not only in the criminal but also in the victim. Why  undermine or  overlook that!

Some citations may help. Quoting from no less than  the executive summary of a whitehouse report 😛

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/sexual_assault_report_1-21-14.pdf

 "Campus Sexual Assault: A Particular Problem. As noted, 1 in 5 women has been sexually assaulted while she's in college. The dynamics of college life appear to fuel the problem, as many victims are abused while they're drunk, under the influence of drugs, passed out, or otherwise incapacitated. Most college victims are assaulted by someone they know - and parties are often the site of these crimes. Notably, campus assailants are often serial offenders: one study found that of the men who admitted to committing rape or attempted rape, some 63% said they committed an average of six rapes each. College sexual assault survivors suffer from high levels of mental health problems (like depression and PTSD) and drug and alcohol abuse. Reporting rates are also particularly low."

Originally posted by: zorrro

Ah -thanks for the clarifications. Better late than never.  Some of the  earlier comments  did seem to suggest the ludicrous 😆 

If that is the case then I think you grossly misunderstood or completely missed the points being made.

Originally posted by: zorrro

Howsoever a mother may discuss the issue of short skirts with her son I feel sure that no mother would instigate her son towards a crime.

And I think you are still missing the point. No one said any mother would instigate the son.

Originally posted by: zorrro

If he does so it has to be because of his own twisted mind. Discouragement or encouragement of any dress has nothing to do with it otherwise the rate of rapes in countries with a more liberal sense of dressing wouldn't be as high as they are reported to be. 

There are may complex factors that work in conjunction to create rape culture. Different countries and societies have their own version of it.

The crux of it is that how parents raise children impacts how children reach to social stimuli. How society is structured influences what stimuli people receive. These factors combined with some natural instincts determine how the person acts in the end.

There are many subliminal things that create rape culture without people realizing it. A lot of it has to do with respecting women and diversity. How objection to short skirts can create misinterpretation that such women are loose and be escalated by other influences was merely at example. The bottom line is educating people about how they perceive women.

Why keep missing the forest by obsessing over one tree?

And what is the harm in accepting that we need to change some things? If by chance it doesn't make a difference -the changes aren't terrible or denying people their rights to values? Just how they discuss them. If by chance it does a difference - aren't we risking too much?  Why resist change when nobody loses from change?

Originally posted by: zorrro

Alcohol is a contributing factor not only in the criminal but also in the victim. Why  undermine or  overlook that!

Some citations may help. Quoting from no less than  the executive summary of a whitehouse report 😛

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/sexual_assault_report_1-21-14.pdf

 "Campus Sexual Assault: A Particular Problem. As noted, 1 in 5 women has been sexually assaulted while she's in college. The dynamics of college life appear to fuel the problem, as many victims are abused while they're drunk, under the influence of drugs, passed out, or otherwise incapacitated. Most college victims are assaulted by someone they know - and parties are often the site of these crimes. Notably, campus assailants are often serial offenders: one study found that of the men who admitted to committing rape or attempted rape, some 63% said they committed an average of six rapes each. College sexual assault survivors suffer from high levels of mental health problems (like depression and PTSD) and drug and alcohol abuse. Reporting rates are also particularly low."

No one is undermining or overlooking the issues caused by alcohol. Again the important factor is temperance in consumption and how people are taught about alcohol.

😆😆Ok, I like my drink as much as the next guy but even I have to admit that the entire concept of "responsible drinking" is an oxymoron. Dinking -mpairs one's judgment, makes one shed inhibitions. Booz is concocted precisely to make one become irresponsible, so duh. :)

Lets face it. Some people are beyond any teaching or learning. They are pests and will remain a pest till their last breath.  The only sensible thing to do is to keep as much a distance as possible from them.  Either stay away from them or put them away from harm's way"behind bars.  Waving a red cloth before a bull does not sound like a sane thing to do.  I may  have every legal and moral right to do it but should I? If due to some  reason I feel compelled to do it would it be better to have chaperones or would it be more liberating to do it all by myself? What should be my mother's advice to me? I guess ideally the bull has no business to be let loose on the roads. It should belong  to a zoo.  An expert matador might succeed in taming it but until then it might be worthwhile to be safe than sorry. Each to his/her own. Hail liberty. 

Originally posted by: zorrro

Lets face it. Some people are beyond any teaching or learning. They are pests and will remain a pest till their last breath. 

We are not talking about reforming rapists or cold criminals here.

A good portion of human behavior is nurture. We are discussing how we can address nurture which is within our hands. It is not just about rape but other issues in society like chauvinism, misogyny, abusive behavior we can address. This nurture is not just for men, but all people equally.

Originally posted by: zorrro

The only sensible thing to do is to keep as much a distance as possible from them.  Either stay away from them or put them away from harm's way"behind bars.  Waving a red cloth before a bull does not sound like a sane thing to do.  I may  have every legal and moral right to do it but should I? If due to some  reason I feel compelled to do it would it be better to have chaperones or would it be more liberating to do it all by myself? What should be my mother's advice to me? I guess ideally the bull has no business to be let loose on the roads. It should belong  to a zoo.  An expert matador might succeed in taming it but until then it might be worthwhile to be safe than sorry. Each to his/her own. Hail liberty. 

Human society is not a bull ring. Humans are not wild untamed beasts. We live in a civilized society. We have learned to curb our animal instincts and behave socially. Every adult human being is a result of shaping by parents, guardians and society. Why dismiss the importance of education and the social conditioning that teaches us to be human? Why dismiss opportunities to be better as a society than we are?

If despite good education and social conditioning people still turn into wild beats then by all means catch them, cage them, punish them or even execute them.

The fact is that society can and will benefit from social awareness and informing people to behave better.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

 
A good portion of human behavior is nurture. We are discussing how we can address nurture which is within our hands. It is not just about rape but other issues in society like chauvinism, misogyny, abusive behavior we can address. This nurture is not just for men, but all people equally. [/QUOTE]

@ bold- thats better 😆

Edited by zorrro - 9 years ago

Even men from well to do families can do this crime. I'm guessing that a boy whose parent's gave him every possible luxury and pampered him and spoilt him completely is as capable of committing rape as a boy who was denied any pleasure or luxury in childhood due to being from a poor background with abusive parents. As for a boy listening to his mother talk badly about girls in exposive clothing, I don't think that manufacturer's his brain into believing that girl's like that need to be punished so terribly. It's basically on the child, not the way he was brought up. The path can go either way. An unprivileged child from a poor background can be in inspired to work hard and get what his parent's were not able to for him himself. Or, he can simply grow up to be an abusive adult like his parent's and remain at his level and learn to inflict such crime's upon women. A boy from an upper-class family may make use of his privileges and achieve a good education and a fulfilling childhood and grow up to be a successful and respectable adult. Or, he could simply let his parent's spoil him and grow up and blow off their money and rape women for the fun of it. 

Upbringing is without a doubt a contributing factor in building a child's mindset/personality...

In the Indian context. two factors:-