Aratai Arangam-Pudusa/Payaisa-Theme-3pg11 - Page 3

Vinu: very nicely written debate ma. My vote for u.

Fluidd: Nanri ma. I wanted to quote so many more good songs in my list but you know that it will be never ending. :)

This content was originally posted by: Vinuthasri

jas: They do not use the same voice.

then my mistake...and i apologise.  they remix a number of old hindi songs where they have maintained the original singers....presumed the same is happenning in the tamil remixes as well.  pardon me!!!

I wish they stop remixing old songs. Please leave the old songs alone. New lyricists, write your own lyrics. :)

the current generation of lyricists are not used to thinking...they are used to being inspired by other poets!!! if you know what i mean!!!😆😆

Edited by jasunap - 16 years ago

jaska: why apologise? You are right about Hindi songs. :)
You are right about some tamil songs which are redone with the same singer, same tune and same lyrics and sold as computerised music version.

Ok I am up with the first theme

THeme: Fighting, between Hero and Herione, I need you guys to come up with a song each preferably, where the hero and herione Fight is depicted.

I dont know how many songs are there in old and new

So if each team have 5 members if each of you can come up with a song then its great, if not if you guys come up with 2 songs on each team that is fine too. ( as long as the other team doesnot have a song in ur genre )

If you need example of fight songs then I will post it

Regards
Anju

Anju: Is the first round over? Some members from the 2 teams have not yet posted their speech.
What is the time limit for this first round as everyone comes from a different time zone?
Please do give example of a fight song. :)

👏
First to our opponents - You all did a great
job 👏 👏 I know how difficult it is
to dish out "good songs" from the recent list -
They are so rare that one has to go to great
lengths to list 3 or 4 - great job folks 👏
👏

👏
To my team mates for making me realize that my
knowledge on old songs is limited - and I was
under the impression that I had a fair idea!!!
Now I understand that it is really difficult to
know them all - there are so many!!!

Now that the standing ovation is over, let me list
a few points. Talking about double meanings -
there is some thing called as "ilai maraivu kai"
in Tamil poetry - difficult to translate but I
still will try - it means that an unripe fruit hides
itself under a leaf and unless one searches for it,
it does not expose itself - I know that I have not
done justice to that excellent phrase and I apologize
to those who cringe at my explanation - coming back
to iilai maraivu kai expressions - there are a few obvious
things which every one knows but can not express
in explicit terms. And so, the old songs made sure to
make gentle remarks and if that is construed as double
meaning , then we have no option but to pity the
ignorance.

If there are any members below the age of 18 please do
not read what follows. Much as I would hate to mention,
I am forced to write to drive home the point. It is another
thing that a three year old sings with gusto the same song
which makes me cringe!!! The cinema industry may not bother
about keeping the decorum but I can not stoop to that level
and so children keep off from what I have to say, thank you.
And now for the adults - I am still on ilai maraivu kai only -

May masam 98 il major aanene ( romba mukkiam!! time,
star ellam missing, need total info!!)
Major aana naalaai nanum bejar aanene ( athenna bejaar??
Suram, need help, u are the dictionary of Madras Tamizh)
Now that this info has been spread across, the composer for
his part has some thing in between - ne nane rozha, little son of Ratnasamy???!!! - sorry folks , forgive my total incapability and
ignorance in catching those words which are just next to
Silappadhigaram and Kamba Ramayanam in poetic hierarchy!!!
Would u guys believe that me and my husband had a bet on this
 - he promised to do the dishes for me for one whole week if I
could decipher the lyrics!! ( it is another thing that I never got
 that luxury!!)

As against

Paavadai dhavaniyil partha uruvamaa
Ithu poovadai veesi vara pootha paruvamaa??

Poovadai again has 2 meanings.
a. smell of flowers; b. saree
So, the girl graduates to wearing a
sari; bud blooms in to a flower and spreads
its smell. If any one asks what a saree is , I am sorry,
I have no energy to explain.

next comes:

Dole dole than from Pokkiri -
Nee udainthu uruga,
Naan unarnthu paruga ...
Nee enakkul nuzhaiya,
Nan unakkul valaiya
Naam namakkul karaiya ...

Graphic description, eh???

as against:

Nee yennenna sonnalum kavitahai
Unnai engengu thottalum inimai
Nee ennenna seythaalum puthumai
Unaai engengu thottalum ilamai
chinnan siru malar paniyinil nanainthu
Ennai konjma vanthu thazhuvida ninainthu
Mullai kodiyene karangalil valainthu
Muthu saram yena kuru nagai purinthu

The same sequence, to engage in the same activity
but nicely expressed, is it not???

I am sure that in their heart of hearts our opponents
know that they are waging a loosing battle. I marvel
at their courage and perseverance. I do know that there
are some very good songs in the new lot.
Some times when I hear a new song with some loud BG score which
makes the lyrics inaudible, I applaud the composer - for their consideration towards the listeners - "the lyrics are so bad that
you are better off not hearing them" !!!! So  among themselves,
the lyricist and composer make a great team - "You hit and I
give the first aid"!!!

Well folks, I am all set for the hockey sticks,base ball bats,
golf clubs, AK 47s.....

Edited by rojapoooo - 16 years ago

No, I am sorry Roja, but I do not agree with you in my hearts of hearts.

If you ask me, I am a fan of the golden oldies, not oldies. By this I mean the Kannadasan - MSV - TMS era. I am not a fan of Vairamuthu and IRR of teh 80s, even though I admit that they have delivered a few gems.

Don't you remember the controversy Orampo caused? That was the first song to use the double entendre modus. I remember the controversy so clearly. My mother used to tell us the news from Ananda Vikatan and Kumutham. In fact, TMS criticised that song and for that he was put in cold storage by IRR and has been there ever since. How about the woman screaming in the song Ponmani Uruguthae? I was so embarrassed when I heard it. Or the suggestive verses in Maman oru naal malligai poo koduthan? Even now I get sick when I hear that song. I can give more examples.

Do you know what song I am hearing over and over again in my iPod now? Parthal Mudhal Naale from Vetaiyaadu Vilaiyadu - the lyrics are amazing...and I love Vaseegara from Minnale so much (let's not talk about the video), Chinna Chinna Aasai from Roja, Putham Puthu Bhoomi from Thiruda Thiruda. And what about the joys of childhood from the song in Veyil?

I love the remixes esp Pollathavan song. I think it has jazzed the old song up; in fact every time I hear that song, my feet begin tapping, whether I am in the bus or at home or in the office.

End of the day, the new songs do not have monopoly on double entendre, the old songs do not have a monopoly on meaningful lyrics.

This content was originally posted by: Vinuthasri

Honourable judge and all my friends,

Karthikka: You quoted the wrong song for the recent times. "enna thavam seydhanai yasodha, engum nirai parabrahmam ennai amma enrazhaikka" is originally written by Papanasam Sivan. The rest of the song starting with aalangkuyil is written by Vairamuthu.

My point being that that song was utilised in a new film...you may know Papanasam Sivan. I don't because although I am Tamil, I am not an Indian. Even if the lyrics were written by Agasthiyar or Avvaiyar or Bharathi, they were utilised in a modern film - I know the effect that song has had on the Tamil-speaking community world-wide. Maybe the Tamils in TN were blase because they had heard these lyrics before, but those of us who did not have that privilege or benefit, were really so taken up with that song and the lyrics.

karthikka honey: You can relax. "Oram po" song has no double meanings if you listen to the complete lyrics. This is a song which comes in the movie when the innocent and somewhat stupid hero is learning to ride a bike with the help of his kid friends. Infact, the song was banned in the radios because lot of young men used to sing it when girls rode their bikes. The censor board was so strict that they banned anyone playing the song even in marriage function mike sets. In those days, there were no stricter laws for eve teasing like we have now. So, ban ban ban. I don't know if the censor board even exists now.

Sorry, Vinu honey, I have seen the film, that is why I am aghast at the meaning of the lyrics and the scene that was portrayed. That that song was vulgar was apparent to anyone with a modicum of intelligence; it was made worse by the seemingly innocent picturisation.

In those days, numerous songs have been written about everyone's favourite subject,"LOVE" and it is impossible to quote just a few of them. The opposite team cannot refuse that this is their all time favourite love song between a husband and wife.
I would like to start with my all time favourite song "kaNNan oru kai kuzhandhai" from the movie BathrakaaLi released in 1976.
Listen and see the complete lyrics here:
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/tamil/s/movie_name.428 7/
See the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fi_dnecUt0
While singing a lullaby, the wife perceives her husband to be a baby and describes the beauty of the baby, kannan and the husband is so overwhelmed with her love that he wants to be with her in all his 7 births.
She sings:
kaNNan oru kai kuzhandhai
kaNgal sollum poonkavidhai
kannam sindhum then amudhai
kondu sellum en manadhai
kaiyirandil naaneduththu paaduginren aaraaro
mai vizhiye thaalelo
maadhavane thaalelo

He sings:
yezh pirappum iNaindhirukkum
sontham indha sontham ammaa
vaazhvirukkum naaL varaikkum
thanjam undhan nenjam ammaa (No other words can express his love so much like these simple lyrics).
gaayathri manthiraththai uchcharikkum
bakthan ammaa ....(wife's name is Gayathri and I am sure everyone knows gayathri manthram. Pun intended here. )
ketkum varam kidaikkum varai
kaN uRakkam maRandhadhammaa

Sorry, I find any comparison of a husband to a baby annoying, irritating and frankly, disturbing. 😃


In those days, the lyricists not only wrote meaningful, impressive lyrics but they also used poetic devices such as rhyme, simile, meataphor etc. With all the English vocabulary used in the current day lyrics, see how poetic these 2 songs are where the lyricist follows the "anthaadhi" pattern where the hero sings a line and the heroine starts with the last word of the hero and the hero continues with the last word in the heroine's line.
Songs are Adi veLLi thedi unnai and Vasantha kaala nadhigalile from "Moonru mudichchu" released in 1976.
Listen here:
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/tamil/s/movie_name.485 5/
Watch aadi velli here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWaLtWiHbJo
The lyrics goes like this:
Hero: aadi veLLi thedi unnai naan adiandha neram
kodi inbam naadi vandhen kaaviriyin ORAM
Heroine: ORAK kannil ooRa vaiththa then kavidhai chaaram
osaiyinri pesuvadhu aasaiyennum VEDHAM
and the song goes on.

Watch vasantha kaala nadhigalile:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0VQbkh1oe4
Same anthaadhi pattern is followed in vasantha kaala nadhigaLile song. Lyricists not only presented decent lyrics but also used the literary styles to adorn their songs those days when compared to the English dominated lyrics which makes us wonder if we are listening to a Tamil song or English song.

When someone is feeling in low spirits, a song goes a long way to cheer him / her up.
Listen to and watch this song "sugamo aayiram from the movie "ThunaiyiruppaaL meenaakshi" released in 1977.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3C_JuW4bqs
The husband has a financial problem and the wife cheers him up saying that life is full of ups and downs like the waning and waxing moon. For a woman real beauty is in punnagai(smile) not in wearing pon nagai(gold jewellery).
vaazhkkai enraal ingu naalum undu
andha vattaththile oru thittam undu
....
vaLarndhaalum kuraindhaalum
nilavundu oLi veesum
adhaik kaanum balam vendum (He should be ready to face his problems.)
punnagaiyil vandha pennazhagu
oru pon nagaiyil illai nalluravu
enai neeyum
unai naanum unarndhaale adhu podhum (Money is not important, only understanding between the spouses matters the most.)

There are lots of songs which depict the love between brother-sister, friends, parents, all other relations, Songs about Nature, devotional, philosophical, marriage, friendship, baby songs...any theme, you name it, we can come up with a very popular and decent song.
The recent songs are full of lyrics that misguide the younger generation and degrade the culture and traditions. When compared, there is no doubt that the old songs are excellent in lyrics and remain evergreen in our minds.
I would conclude by giving few examples of old songs and new songs and no soul would fail to support our stand that old is gold.

You mean to say that there are no meaningful lyrics in new films? Songs about parents, siblings, friendships do not exist in new films? Autograph, Thavamai Thavamirunthu, 7G Rainbow Colony, Dhill (Nanbane en Nanbane), Mozhi do not have meaningful songs?

Vinu, I beg to differ. Songs from the 80s are not evergreen. Songs from the 60s are. They substantiate your argument that old is indeed gold.


Recent songs where the female sings:
Thee pidikka thee pidkka muththam kodudaa...etc
Kattip pudi kattip pudi daa kaNNaaLaa kanda padi kattipudi daa....
Dei, kaiyai vachchikkittu summaa irudaa
Rendule onnu thoda variyaa?
chinna veedaa varattumaa, periya veedaa varattumaa?
En chellap peru apple, nee size aa kadichukko

I can name so many of them: So can I!!!Old songs, I mean.

Karthikka talked about sagalakala vallavan song. Kamal was so popular in those times and the glittering pants was in fashion in those days and he had such a huge group of lady fans. Now that the glittering pants are not in fashion anymore, you may be feeling like this. If we start talking about present day costumes,dear karthikka, new song stand will fail miserably. So, let's not go there, hon. :)

Vinu, can you please read my post again, hon. I specifically said that the costumes argument has got nothing to do with the debate. It was my off-the-cuff remark when I was talking about the song. So FYI, there is no need to go there, hon, because I did not not go there in the first place, hon. 😃


Netra, my friend, please do not challenge with the world vote which will make your team weak.

Vinu, our friend, we could throw back the same argument at you, sweetie. 😃
 
At the end of the day, we should agree to disagree. When I first said I wanted to take the "oldies" side, I had in mind the 60s....in fact, I knew I would have a hard time arguing against that....but then when I saw that the time frame was limited to the 80s, I was relieved.....as I really am not impressed with the songs that came out in the 80s...of course , there are many exceptions but I am a diehard Kannadasan-MSV-TMS fan and I really wasn't that keen on Vairamuthu-IRR-SPB. I am enjoying the newies even though I think Vairamuthu is still a pain! 😆

This content was originally posted by: jasunap

and tell me one more thing my wonderful opponents....if the old songs were not so sustaining i wonder why so many of them are being remixed are a major hit these days...thottal poo malarum is an example for this one!!! the same voices, the same lyrics, the same melody...just a variation i the tune...

Thottal poo malarum is a GOLDEN OLDIE dear heart. 😃